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« Cheer up! It’s not all bad news! | Main | Wilberforce quote »
Monday
12Mar

A BEGINNERS GUIDE TO NORTHERN IRELAND POLITICS - PART 1

UK_unionist_party_logo.gifTHE UK UNIONIST PARTY - its' part in my downfall!

I wanted to offer those of you who might be interested my take on Unionism within Northern Ireland and what better way to start than with the only political party I have ever belonged to- the famously self-exploding UK Unionist Party! If you enjoy this, I can follow up with perspectives on the Ulster Unionist Party and the Democratic Unionist Party.

For starters, the thing about the UK Unionist Party (UKUP) is that it was never really designed to be a Party. That was an accident. In fact the history of the Party is littered with similar accidents. Fortunately, we had a lawyer available!

mccartney1.jpgThe main man in what was to be the Party was North Down resident Robert McCartney. Bob was a fiery barrister, who had long been a thorn in the side of the Ulster Unionist Party eventually storming out of it in 1987, disgusted at the antics of then leader Jim Molyneaux. He had also branded DUP leader Ian Paisley as "a fascist" - so he was an equal opportunities insulter of the great and the good. 

In 1995, the then MP in North Down, Jim Kilfedder - leader (and sole member) of the ..wait for it..Ulster Popular Unionist Party, (the equivalent of the Judean People's Popular Front) died suddenly and there was a by-election from which Bob emerged triumphant. He became a Member of Parliament and I believe he was then viewed by some as a pluralist-minded liberal politician who offered a fresh alternative to the existing stale Unionist menu. I can stll recall his interview on Radio Ulster the day after his victory and he was then being hailed by the local MSM as  the future of Unionism. How times would change, but that lies a little further ahead.

Around this time, the UK Government called the Forum Elections, and Bob was elected on a province wide vote of 25,500 and he was subsequently joined by Irish politician and writer Conor Cruise O'Brien and "serial protestor" Cedric Wilson in these multi-party talks. At this stage, I still had not made any connection but that was about to change.

In 1997, Sinn Fein/IRA called a tactical cessation of mass murder and were instantly invited into the Forum by a conniving Government.  The UKUP delegates withdrew instantly from the talks, and thereafter from the Forum itself. A unionist party that actually put principle first - amazing!

By this time, I knew Cedric Wilson, Paddy Roche, and others who were to play a dramatic role in the later destruction of the Party. My association with them came about from my then role as Chairman of the Non-party aligned "Business & Professional People for the Union" grouping. As the pace of political events heightened, the group to which I belonged "interviewed" David Trimble - the relatively new new Leader of the UUP, Dr Paisley, leader of the DUP, and fatefully, Robert McCartney - leader of the UKUP. I was most impressed with Bob - he was earnest, obviously intelligent and spoke in a way which resonated with me and several others of the group.

The next year, 1998, saw the Government call a Referendum on the outcome of the talks between the various local Parties - which excluded the DUP and UKUP. I was then more centrally involved through my friendship with Cedric and Patrick and attended many private meetings of the "NO" Campaign, along with several public meetings. It was a heady time - and my first full-on political experience. I met most of the major Unionist figures during this time and was unimpressed. Bob was the exception and so, after the referendum was held and our gallant "It's Right to say No" campaign failed to swing the day, I then was asked to stand as a candidate for the UKUP in the 1998 June Assembly election.

In a moment of madness - to borrow a contemporary phrase - I accepted it, knowing absolutely nothing about campaigning and with little on-the-ground support in the heart of Ulster Unionism in Upper Bann. David Trimble was the sitting MP but I did enjoy the excoriating of his appeasement minded policies in the local media. It was very much David V against the David T goliath.

The UK Unionist position was simple. We opposed any political arrangements which rewarded terrorists, which would release killers from prison, which would destroy the RUC, and undermine the rule of law. Our Party opposed devolution, and sought to persuade that integration with the mother of Parliaments at Westminster was the way forward. In that respect, we stood alone. I was honoured to stand on such a manifesto as I felt it was decent and principled. But could we sell it to the electorate?

The answer was...YES! I did not succeed in winning a seat in Upper Bann, and got 1400 odd (very odd!) first preference votes. I did, however, outpoll every other Ulster Unionist except Trimble. I got virtually no transfers from the other Unionist Parties and at that point I started to understand why tribalism is such a big factor in NI politics! But whilst I failed to win a seat, several of my colleagues succeeded! Along with Bob, Cedric got elected in Strangford, Patrick in Lagan Valley, Roger Hutchinson in East Antrim, and Norman Boyd in South Antrim.  I was closest to Patrick and Cedric, saw Hutchinson as a spiv and was stunned that he could get elected and had never even met Spiny Norman Boyd!

But just as the UKUP gained this HUGE success (completely ignored by the MSM since our views were heresy through the prism of the government-controlled Media) the seeds of destruction had already been sewn. At a meeting in Bangor, Bob has asked all candidates BEFORE we stood for election that we would agree to resign our seats IF he requested it in certain circumstances. I clearly recall we all agreed to this, though in retrospect Bob's demand was both poorly communicated, badly timed and a tad over-bearing. No written response was asked for......a ticking bomb commenced.

Almost straightaway, or at least after the June election and the summer period, the mood was a-changing in the Party. I had become the Communications Director of the Party - and obviously was talking to everyone, including Bob. What really detonated the destruction of the Party was the re-occurrence of Bob's demand that all our MLA's would resign their seats IF Sinn Fein/IRA were permitted into the Executive. It became obvious that Cedric and co did not agree with this. To add fuel to the fire, the Party's President, the agreeable Conor Cruise O'Brien wrote an article for his employer, the Sunday Independent, in which he suggested that there could be circumstances in which unionists might prefer to be in a United Ireland than a Sinn Fein/IRA ruled Northern Ireland. This was red rag to a raging bull to Patrick, Cedric and co, and despite my concerted efforts to achieve a peace - things were about to get much much worse.

A meeting was called at Stormont, Bob was there as were all the MLA's. And me. The atmosphere was electric as the door closed and things kicked off. Basically Bob felt the 4 MLA's had behaved dishonourably, they felt he was being a tyrant. Harsh things were said and it just all went off the rails, ending with total discord. I have never been in such a bad-tempered meeting prior or since then. It was also obvious to me that Cedric and co no longer trusted me - fearing I was very much in Bob's camp. In truth, I was torn between people I had viewed as friends now acting as if they were implacable enemies.

NIunionist_party_logo.gifAnd so it was that in January 1999, the UKUP publicly split in two, with four MLA's going off to form the Northern Ireland Unionist Party (Popular Front of Judea). I stayed with Bob and we went through a tumultous period - public meetings and media appearances - when we tried to explain what had happened. Looking back, it was too late. The split was fatal, though it would take several more years to ascertain JUST how fatal. I suppose you could conclude that it was that fateful Autumn of discontent that saw the ideals of the Party crash and burn. Everyone involved would end up losing because of it.

Cedric, Paddy, Roger and Norman never spoke to me again during the next five years though I have since met Cedric and had a civilised lunch and corresponded with Paddy, following the sad death of his wife, Liz. I have never spoken to Roger Hutchinson, nor would I. He was an political opportunist of the first order and he well deserved his own political eclipse which subsequently followed. Norman Boyd was a bland cipher, never knew him and am glad of it. 

Despite the debacle of the 1999 split, that year also saw the June European election. Bob was persuaded to stand as a candidate in this and he and I were closely involved in writing the Party manifesto. That was quite an interesting experience and I vividly remember the late nights trying to construct several sections of this. The campaign was difficult, coming as it did six months after the very public split and the acrimony that followed. Standing at this time was a bad idea, and I wish I had told Bob NOT to stand as it would have been the wiser course to take.

We found the media reluctant to give us any publicity and in Northern Ireland the European Parliament election is somehow inexorably linked with the Agricultural lobby - a group I have little time for. It is also relentlessly tribal and is all about who has the biggest vote! I recall the count taking place at the King's Hall in Belfast and the insults thrown our way by the DUP's William Hay, a little toad of a man. I also recall the jeering from David Ervine, the UVF's political frontman, and latter day martyr since his death back in January.

From 1999 to 2001, the UKUP maintained a relatively high media presence and I was elected Deputy Leader in December 1999. It was a time of trying to organise the Party into constituency associations, provide it with a proper constitution, and plan a party future post Bob. During these years, he and I became trusted friends. My wife and I were regular dinner guests at his beautiful home and I got to see another side to Bob - not the public side, but a more reflective and gentle persona, a man who was proud of his family and who loved the written word. I also got to know Conor Cruise O'Brien and his wife, lovely people who were  the most delightful company. 

Bob was still an MP at this time as well as an MLA, and he and I frequently met up at the Stormont Assembly. During this period, I witnessed the gross hypocrisy of certain other politicians in Unionist Parties who publicly claimed that they "never" spoke to Sinn Fein/IRA representatives whilst happily chatting away to them in the Member's tea-room. More coffee, Martin? I also discerned that the UKUP was seen as a nuisance by all the other unionist Parties, and Bob's relationships were very rocky with many of the other elected politicians. He never had any contact with the Sinn Fein/IRA or PUP/UVF frontmen and in that regard I followed him, refusing to sit in the same TV/Radio room as them. That used to really annoy the local MSM!! 

Events were building up to the 2001 General Election and the local NI Council elections which coincided with them. Bob wanted to defend his Westminster seat and the UKUP also chose to put up several local candidates for Council. It was a very stressful time, with degrees of in-fighting focusing on a few people very close to Bob that many others did not like, respect or trust. It also brought home to me that to fight elections successfully you must concentrate your resources and not spread them too thin. Unionism had been polarising since 1998 and whilst I remained friendly with the DUP locally in Upper Bann, including future MP David Simpson and MLA Stephen Moutray, relationships elsewhere were very sore. In the event, the UKUP vote splintered, we did not make any breakthrough and Bob lost his Westminster seat in North Down thanks to a Faustian alliance between the UUP, Woman's Coalition and erm...the Alliance Party- ensuring the uberliberal Ulster Unionist Sylvia "I'm a Lady, you know" Hermon gaining the constituency.

I was present at the count when the result was announced and it was a horrible moment. We were jeered by the Ulster Unionists, The Alliance and assorted other "moderates". Bob took it all with as much good grace as one could expect. I remember thinking Sylvia Hermon venomous in her "victory" speech. That day was a real low. 

It was at this point that I concluded the NI pro-Union electorate is inherently tribal, and disinterested in what smaller unionist parties had to say. I wondered what the point was in carrying on. Some of my associates drifted away, disgusted at the mood of the electorate.  These included my right-hand men in Upper Bann, David Hudson and Stephen Briggs, both men of deep political principle.

Things were ending. The excitement and hope of 1998 had evaporated. The media treated Bob as a combination of demon and joke. I had come to view him as a principled intellect but who was cursed with really POOR man management skills and this was the primary fault-line that led to political fracture.

Increasingly in late 2001 I found myself in conflict with Bob over the gnawing issue of a little coterie whom he listened to but who were poison. Bob and I finished our political relationship during one very heated late night phone call. I hung up on him - fed up with his pompous self righteousness -and resigned a few days later.  I timed it to coincide with the Party annual meeting. Et tu, Brute? 

Looking back on it, I wish I had resigned earlier. My line at the time, and which I do not regret using, was that for a man who claimed not to be a one-man band, he did like to play every instrument!

Towards the end of my days in the UKUP I had become interested in the internet, and had conceived of a thing called A Tangled Web. It has now outlasted the UKUP! 

Meanwhile, the UKUP staggered on. I had written hundreds of press releases over the years for it. Now these all ceased, apart from Bob's occasional article. The Party became one man, and he and I never spoke.

Or at least not until last autumn, 2006, when I was a speaker at the BBC organised "Big Rates Debate" in Belfast. Bob was miffed because he was not allowed to speak from the platform, and in many ways I was taking his place. He sat in the front row, right in front of me but was generous with his applause during my speech and interventions. At the end of that evening, on my way out of the Ulster Hall, we met and shook hand. Bob immediately turned away from me after shaking my hand. His acolytes carried on talking to me.

And so, we come to the 2007 Assembly elections. These saw Robert McCartney lose his North Down seat. He had also foolishly convinced himself to stand in a number of additional constituencies around Northern Ireland and received a derisory vote akin to the Monster Raving Loony candidates. The lesson of 1999 had not been taken to heart. All his other candidates failed to get elected. It really was the end. The political career is over.

I have subsequently sought to make contact with Bob with a few words of sincere commiseration - his political end may have been met with glee by the MSM and his many opponents, but there is a part of me that felt it was right to show him that despite our differences, I nontheless appreciated his virtues and his attempt to offer an alternative brand of Unionism. He had his faults, but who doesn't? When it came to matters of political integrity, he was a good man at heart. I have no idea what he thinks of me. 

I remain proud of my association with the non-sectarian pluralism of the UK Unionist Party. We did have some heady times, including some fascinating meetings with Peter Mandelson, General Sir John de Chastelain, Senator George Mitchell,  Mo Mowlam, Sir Ronnie Flanagan, David Trimble.....the list goes on and I will expand on these at another time.

I do retain some fond memories of Bob, and for a time, we made a stand that struck some resonance with the pro-Union electorate for a time. The split in 1999 was a killer blow, but what else could we have done but soldier on for the time we felt we had a mandate? We offered the electorate a way out of the trap of devolution - instead they willingly embrace that which will destroy the Union. Their call, not ours. UKUP - RIP.

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Reader Comments (68)


It was indeed very sad to see a promising political party fall apart in this way.

So many people in politics (UKIP is another good example) just can't grasp that you either hang together or hang separately.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 12:01PM | Unregistered CommenterSean Fear
Really interesting piece David. Party politics seems to be even more bitter than I thought.

I feel sorry for Bob though. As I have posted here he said a lot of things in the last wee while with which I agreed. However, he allowed himself to be talked into foolishly standing in 6 seats was an exercise doomed to fail before it even began.

I never thought much of Voice4democracy but I am sure there are many well intentioned people in it.

However, the speed with which they dropped Mr McCartney after he was destroyed at the polls (they are now saying that there were no v4d candidates) is disgusting. Even more low that anything the DUP have done in the last wee while – and that’s saying something.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 12:13PM | Registered CommenterSamuel Morrison
Interesting post David. Obviously from the heart.

The fundamental problem for unionism is that it is faced with two bad choices: Either devolution with unrepentant shinners or direct rule from uncaring British ministers (Hain has been the worst example of this) and a growing input from Dublin. Not much of a choice really.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 12:34PM | Registered CommenterPeter
Didn't know you were so high profile.
Have to admit though your piece read like an obituary to a one-sided view of history, thankfully the good people of norn iron have flatly rejected.
What next for men of your views? In realterms, or are you just going to be playing the violin from now on?
The fiddle is more fun you know!
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 12:35PM | Unregistered CommenterPercy

A sad but very impressive tale. You didn't mention Bob's intervention in the Drumcree disputes, which I thought was crucial.

It all sounds like an interesting experience overall. I don't agree with CCoB on practically anything, but I'd still love to have a chat with a man who has been so closely involved in so much of 20th C Irish politics.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 12:41PM | Unregistered CommenterCunningham
Interesting piece, David, and I would be very interested in an elaborated article, as well as your take on the UUP and the DUP.

While not sharing the same politics, it would be hard not to empathise on a more personal level. Ideals might make the man, but strategy makes the winner.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 12:43PM | Unregistered Commentersmcgiff

Forgot to add:

The big question is what, if any, difference the UKUP would have made had it stayed with and added to its 1998 lineup. Would it still be a big player in NI politics, perhaps overtaking the UUP? Or would it have come to nowt, as integration is just not popular anywhere in NI?
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 12:45PM | Unregistered CommenterCunningham
'Would it still be a big player in NI politics, perhaps overtaking the UUP?'

Cunningham,

I'm sure David will answer in his own time... but I think they could have had a huge future if they didn't fracture when they did.

It's hard to speculate, but what if there were a credible alternative to the DUP for these elections if, after the DUP effectively hi-jacked the UUPs policies, there were a more hard-line unionist alternative?

Clearly the UKUP didn't have the critical mass to take advantage of the unionist vote that surely exists and defected to the DUP from the UUP when the UUP effectively delivered power sharing. Their problem was that after transferring to the DUP they didn't have an anyone else to jump ship to once the DUP morphed into the UUP Mark II. What if the UKUP had kept 5 or more MLA’s coming into this election – We’ll never know.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 12:56PM | Unregistered Commentersmcgiff
<Q>integration is just not popular anywhere in NI?</Q>

Not convinced that is so.

It hasn't been offered as a serious and fair option.

All that we have had has been two bastardised versions

1) The ploy to have dreadful government such as offered by Hain to try and scare people into allowing Adams and other Terrorists into office

2) Scare tactics about letting B,B,Bertie have a big say in rule from Westminster.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 01:03PM | Registered CommenterMadradin Ruad
David: I enjoyed this rough draft of your book. Politics can be a smorgasbord of betrayal, recrimination, principle, and frustration.

The subtitle intrigued me - "Its' part in my downfall". What downfall are you referring to?
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 01:23PM | Unregistered Commentermahons

>>and fair option<<

MR,
There is no fair option when one of the parties basically does not want the marriage.
The willing party has to accept what terms it can get.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 01:26PM | Unregistered CommenterCunningham
similiar thing happened in 1922, accept partition or we'll declare war on you.
Thought Hain's piece was funny in the guardian:
"This time, it's we who will say 'No surrender'"
Games up
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 01:34PM | Unregistered CommenterPercy
Mahons,

Spike Milligan published a book entitled "Adolf Hitler; My part in his downfall" - I was riffing off that and the fact that I have no political career whatsoever! My alternate title was "It was my Party and I'll cry if I want to..."!!

Cunningham/SmcGiff/Sean/Peter,

Thanks for the kind comments - words cannot always encapsulate the intensity of feeling but I hope my sense of sadness about it all came over.

On a more general note - (another Chapter, Mahons) I came to view politics as a dog eat rabid dog world. I hope this does not sound pompous but I try to be honest and straightforward in my dealings both commercially and privately. But the amount of back-stabbing, duplicity and insincerity I encountered in politics sickened me, and yes, I have specifics in mind when I write these words, and some involve certain politicians who one might think were very upstanding and sincere, Forgeddit!!!!
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 01:57PM | Unregistered CommenterDavid Vance
David

A very interesting read. Always good to get an insight into what goes on in the background.

I wonder if you may have been naive in expecting politicians to reflect the honesty and principles you hold yourself to

Politics is cut throat. its dirty, its compromising and in general does not lend itself to those with principles and integrity.

Monday, March 12, 2007 at 02:12PM | Unregistered CommenterKloot
>>Adolf Hitler; My part in his downfall<<

Ah spike, ya cant beat him. A friend of mine in work has the entire catalogue of the goons which i dip into regularly.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 02:13PM | Unregistered CommenterKloot
David - missed the Spike reference. Nice one.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 02:15PM | Unregistered Commentermahons
Kloot,

TOTALLY naive. But I also operate in the business world and so I am not that naive but I found the lying, the two-faced behaviour so unprofessional. That's why I am basically in opposition to most of them and I speak as someone who knows what they are really like!
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 02:16PM | Unregistered CommenterDavid Vance
>>I found the lying, the two-faced behaviour so unprofessional.<<

Isnt it strange when you think about it...

When your getting your house built, you contact a professional builder and they will sort you.

When getting your washing machine fixed, you get a professional plumber in and they will sort you out.

When getting your broken arm fixed you go to the hospital and get that fixed

and yet, when you want someone head up the health department, or the education ministry you appoint a politician with absolutely no experience in the area...

Politics eh... its a mugs game.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 02:24PM | Unregistered CommenterKloot
Kloot,

My late Grandmother said the same, and I valued her advice to me! Still, I reckon I got enough material for a decent book out of it - so there is always a silver lining!!
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 02:45PM | Unregistered CommenterDavid Vance

>>and yet, when you want someone head up the health department, or the education ministry you appoint a politician with absolutely no experience in the area..<<

That's democracy all over, Kloot. You get the most popular, not the most suitable, simply because people won't be able to agree on who the most suitable is.

But if it's any consolation to you, just look at who the Americans ended up with to run their country.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 03:00PM | Unregistered CommenterCunningham
"But if it's any consolation to you"

As an American, it is surely not.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 03:04PM | Unregistered CommenterAlan McDonald
Cunningham: It is indeed a cry the beloved country time for us Yanks, but we'll make it through. The institutions and ideals override temporary setbacks imposed by lesser lights like Bush. Of course, no particular current international leader comes to mind as exemplary.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 03:22PM | Unregistered Commentermahons

There ain't none. You need a new JFK.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 03:45PM | Unregistered CommenterCunningham
Cunningham: That family although they never stopped reproducing, have yet to reproduce someone of that quality. We'll have to look elsewhere.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 04:06PM | Unregistered Commentermahons
David,
interesting post. Always good to get an honest inside track on these things.

Just goes to show you can have all the ability in the world, as Bob clearly has, but it doesn't make you a top politician.

Personally I think the UKUP would have suffered under the weight of the DUP juggernaut even if it had survived. It does seem that integrationists aren't all that popular in Northern Ireland.

Although you never know what would have happened if there actually was an established alternative to the right of the DUP in the recent election.

Say for example, the UKUP had a handful of MLAs and Bob was still an MP.

McCartney was very poorly advised on running in six constituencies.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 04:09PM | Unregistered CommenterGarfield
Stone the flaming crows...if you were chocolate you'd eat yourself. In politics if you want a friend ..get a dog. If you want to get something done, deal in the real world. You're a wimp...pathetic
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 04:10PM | Unregistered Commenteryeuch
Yeuch,

Politicians get a lot of stick, but I for one wouldn't have the guts etc. to put myself forward.

How about you?
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 04:55PM | Unregistered Commentersmcgiff
Yeuch: Is it true you took your name from your mother's first word open being presented with you by the doctor at your birth?
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 05:08PM | Unregistered Commentermahons
Garfield,

Thanks for that! I would suggest that the source of his bad advice is the same source that led to our separating of the ways. A certain poison was never lanced.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 06:19PM | Unregistered CommenterDavid Vance
"A certain poison was never lanced"

Sounds like a cracking good title for your book, David!
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 06:32PM | Unregistered CommenterAlan McDonald
Alan,

I have a huge list. As someone who enjoys wordplay, I want a memorable one.....
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 07:09PM | Registered CommenterDavid Vance
Interesting and honest post David, great read. To sort of fall into something more by circumstance and feel strongly about whats going on sounds very hard. If you dont enter the race you cant win it which is more than most of us can claim to have done. Its a tough old race nonetheless. You know what Churchill said about democracy.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 07:38PM | Unregistered Commenteralison
<Q>There is no fair option when one of the parties basically does not want the marriage.</Q>

We were talking about integration within the UK not a United Ireland.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 07:46PM | Registered CommenterMadradin Ruad
David - Too bad What's So Funny About Peace Love and Understanding was taken.

Of course you could always paraphrase Elvis with Blame it on Able.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 08:22PM | Unregistered Commentermahons
So thats it all wrapped up then, its was all your fault DV.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 09:12PM | Unregistered CommenterParnell
Tester
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 09:26PM | Unregistered CommenterBB
Parnell,

Mea not culpa!

BB,

Connecting OK?
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 09:49PM | Unregistered CommenterDavid Vance
Parnell - we all know that everything is the Islamo-catholic French Commie fascists' fault!
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 10:08PM | Registered CommenterMadradin Ruad
DV,

well-written, penetrating and at times profoundly amusing piece. One of the rare matters about which we agree must be our view of Roger Hutchinson!

As I said before, I think the whole area of UKUP is understudies from an academic point of view. What UKUP and a handful of Independent Unionists (Frazer Agnew, Willie Wright, etc.) did was offer a safe berth for Unionists who were opposed to cutting a deal with Sinn Féin, but at that time still repelled by the DUP, whether on class or religious grounds. As such it added enormously to the problems Trimble had during the 1998-2003 period and was effectively the Trojan horse the DUP used to claim the leadership of Unionism. With a more secure majority within the Unionist bloc in the Assembly, and with the anti camp further from the 30 seats it needed to lodge Petitions of Concern, Trimble would have had much more room for manoeuvre and may have been able to pull the whole thing off.

Your problem in 1998 was that Dennis Watson, with his Orange links, was the more credible non-DUP anti candidate in Upper Bann and he stole a lot of the thunder that may otherwise have shed itself over you.

In any case, thank you for putting this together.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 10:19PM | Unregistered CommenterSammy Morse
Sammy,

Thanks for that. I agree entirely with your analysis!

As for Roger the Dodger, I have restricted my full feelings lest I lower the tone of my own site!
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 10:32PM | Registered CommenterDavid Vance
DV. On the constatutional issue Bob McCartney and I would be political opposite's but I find his beliefs and opinion's genuine sincere and from the heart, for that, I have the greatest respect for Bob McCartney, in particular, when this outstanding gentleman took to the streets seeking public office since he did not need to. I do genuinely hope Bob McCartney reconsiders Fridays statement Though that appears unlikely. For his part he was at the very least colouful but always decent. Sadly the most endearing characteristic's of Bob McCartney at the Assembly where his alone - he was a one off.


Monday, March 12, 2007 at 10:35PM | Unregistered CommenterParnell
Madradin Ruad, Good to hear from you again. You haven't changed a bit. Is It still everyone else,s fault? Seriously what did them ordinary decent hard working and tax paying people in the, (Islamo-Catholic French Commie Fascist Party), ever do to you? LOL
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 10:36PM | Unregistered CommenterParnell
Parnell,

Thanks for the kind words about Bob. Despite the ribbing, I remain closer to his unionism than any other. The thing is, we are men out of time.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 10:45PM | Registered CommenterDavid Vance
David
Very very interesting stuff. If I had stayed in NI, UKUP is the party that I would have joined. The main appeal what that the individuals put ideals efore party advantange and the inclusive (in terms of religion) and exclusive (interms of terrorism) was singing my song.

Bob is a decent person, with unfortunate man management style. I never knew anyone that could have so many heated agreements. His wife and daughter are delightful, are the O' Briens.

I knew Cedric Paddy and Norman and had a lot of time for them. I was really sad to hear of the bust up.

Funnily enough, the only two main players I never got to meet in the old days were Hutchimson and your good self!

The other funny thing is that UKUP was seen by some of us as the "non-right" side of unionism ;o)

Bob did initially create a good impression amongst some in the Labour Party [not that that would necesessarily put him in your credit column ;o) ]
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 11:03PM | Unregistered Commenteraileen
David,
As I recall things the issue of taking seats in any of the committee's of the Assembly had more to do with the UKUP/NIUP breakup. Bob did not want any UKUP member to take a place on any committee's while Cedric led the rest into taking seats.
Of course I was never a member but that was what was reported to myself!
A tad dishonest on your reporting about Bob's entry into North Down politics, he wanted to stand as an Ulster Unionist against Kilfedder but was denied the opportunity due to the policy of Unionists not running against each other in opposition to the Anglo-Irish Agreement. That is why he left the UUP rather than any argument with "Wee Jim" who would have agreed with his integrationist views anyhow.
Surprised you viewed Kilfedder's party as "the equivalent of the Judean People's Popular Front" as he took the Conservative whip in parliament and was very Conservative in his views (probably why there was such a large N.I.Conservative vote in that constituencty prior to his death, though that proved to die with him)
You are quite right in your view about Hutchinson by the way, an absolute non-entity.

Monday, March 12, 2007 at 11:25PM | Unregistered CommenterIntelligence Insider
Thank you David, That was an interesting and informative read. I look forward to more of your series.
Monday, March 12, 2007 at 11:44PM | Unregistered CommenterDaphne
Aileen,

Thanks for those comments. Wish you had have joined.

Intelligence Insider,

Thank you for your insight. I didn't know Jim so I stand to be corrected, though I think the Judean Front line was quite good!

As for the break up, I must sit down with Cedric and get the rounded version. Inevitably different people remember different thing. From my perspective it was the fact that it happened which was the point, if you know what I mean, since the consequences were so severe for all involved.
Tuesday, March 13, 2007 at 08:48AM | Unregistered CommenterDavid Vance
David,

Thank you - a very interesting read.

I would still disagree with Bob's viewpoint, but I was very interested in an interview he had on talkback about a year ago on the 11+. He spoke an awful lot of sense that day (as does Baroness May Blood).

He was and is a unique man of NI politics.
And also a very good orator. Its a pity in a way that
he lost his seat, as I believe there is a place for the "maverick" who doesn't toe the line, and very often has something very significant to contribute.

I was also impressed by Paddy - seemed to be a basic level of honesty about him. Less time for Cedric and the others.

I was interested to see your description of the speeches when Bob lost his seat as the MP. My initial impression was that Bob showed bad grace by insisting on speaking first. I have no doubt tho that the jeering and animosity was very visceral and hurtful.

It didn't surprise me to hear of the DUP (e.g. W Hay) behaviour at the counts. Most politicians in NI (and the republic) are basically a bunch of boot boys that despite their appeal to good living (I'm thinking of one party in particular) are more in tune with the thugs outside a pub on a Friday night.

-j
Tuesday, March 13, 2007 at 09:15AM | Unregistered Commenterjoc
Joc,

You're quite right. Next up is my take on the DUP. I hope you will find that of interest!
Tuesday, March 13, 2007 at 09:25AM | Unregistered CommenterDavid Vance
Off Topic- but proves you/we were right David.

<Q>Peter Mandelson has accused the prime minister of "unreasonable and irresponsible" behaviour in the way he granted concessions to Sinn Féin during Downing Street's attempts to broker a peace deal in Northern Ireland. As Mr Blair tries once again to revive power sharing, he is criticised by one of his closest political allies of "conceding and capitulating" to republican demands, which alienated unionists.</Q>

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/northernirelandassembly/story/0,,2032429,00.html

Tuesday, March 13, 2007 at 09:46AM | Registered CommenterMadradin Ruad

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