Sunday
02Sep2007
ABORTIONS ON DEMAND
Sunday, September 2, 2007 at 10:21AM 
I see that UK MPs are moving to make it MUCH easier and quicker for women to get abortions, without the prior approval of a doctor and, in some cases, with the procedure just being carried out by a nurse. MPs from all parties are to launch a campaign to modernise abortion law. They want to allow women to have early abortions on an "informed consent" basis and to allow trained nurses and midwives to carry out early abortions for the first time. They also want to expand the number of clinics offering early abortions so that women are no longer restricted to using centres officially licensed to carry out terminations. Now I know that there are very strong views on this, both pro and anti - but I have to say that I find the cross-party enthusiasm that MP's have for making abortions on demand available shocking. Where is the cross-party enthusiasm for protecting the unborn?
in Health
Health 
View Printer Friendly Version
Reader Comments (40)
I would imagine most abortions are carried out on single and often too young women in which case harsh as it may seem , easier access to abortion would be better than an evergrowing number of welfare dependent teenage mums having kids they are too immature to raise and who will in many cases end up adding to the statistics mentioned in the 'age of criminal responsibilty thread'.
"in some cases, with the procedure just being carried out by a nurse"
... Just a nurse? Despite the fact that it will just be the administration of a single pill, the nurses (and midwife's) will be specifically trained on this procedure (probably to a higher standard than most doctors).
Maybe you could give the backbone of the health system in the UK (ie nurses) a wee bit more credit?
It helps with population replacement program. If whitey aborts his future children, non-whitey takes over much earlier.
Allan
Who said this was only about aborting white children ? How narrow you are to view this purely in terms of race.
Colm, let's check the linkage.
The left favour abortion on demand, and the current abortion rate takes the indigenous birth rate below replacement levels. Because the birth rate is below replacement, the left advocate mass migration to make up for the shortfall which the abortion rate (circa 200,000 per annum) which they support has brought about.
Allan
The indigenous birthrate is going down because for decades now couples have been having smaller families or none at all. It is somewhat paradoxically what always happens as societies become more affluent. Little to do with race.
Don'nt dismiss Allan's throw-away comment so easily Colm. It rings true.
In 1985 the then Health Minister Ken Clarke intimated as much in a private conversation with my sister over parents right to be informed about a daughter's abortion.
He implied that the Govt had "problems" with the the rising tide of the black, illigitimate birth-rate, and that the Govt was against parental consent.
Regarding Allan and Bernard's points,
Margaret Sanger began the abortion movement to reduce the populations of what she called "human weeds" ie, the blacks, irish, polish, etc. underclasses in American society. She felt these people were not fit to breed and would ruin society with their large families. In America today, 70% of all black pregnancies end in abortion.
Abortion began as tool to control the population of certain segments of society and I wouldn't be surprised if government is still using it in this manner. They sold abortion to the public with numerical lies and disinformation, promoting it as a "women's rights" and health issue.
Well trained Nurse's are certainly capable of handling abortion procedures. With fewer doctors willing to perform abortions, the government has to find enough willing professionals to perform the procedure. I bet if you dig around, you'll find they took a poll of nurses and found that many of these women have very strongly held opinions on a woman's right to choice.
Government doesn't care about the unborn - they don't vote.
Daphne,
"Margaret Sanger began the abortion movement to reduce the populations of what she called "human weeds" ie, the blacks, irish, polish, etc. underclasses in American society. She felt these people were not fit to breed and would ruin society with their large families."
An example of why many people skip the 'f' when typing 'pro-life'.
"Government doesn't care about the unborn - they don't vote."
Neither do unfertilised ova.
Right you are, Frank. From Margaret Sanger, Planned Parenthood Founder:
First a word in favour of nurses. During a current illness, I could not get into surgery in time to have an appointment with the GP. The Nurse Practitioner saw me, and gave me the best examination I have ever had. She also spotted a potential problem which means I am now seeing a consultant. Previous visits to the GP had not caused any comment although the problem was there then.
As regards abortion,I do not like the tone of some of the comments already appearing on this.
In a time of contraception on demand there should be far less need for abortion, (rape being the principal reason where abortion would always be needed).
But every woman should have the right to have an abortion if that is her wish. And she should not be submitted to harangues from social workers, medical staff, pro-life campaigners or anyone else.
David, protecting the unborn? How about government concentrate on protecting the already born from the vicious criminals first. When the violent crime rate is zero, and the property crime rate is zero, then get back to me. In the meantime, I think the government has enough number one priorities on its plate.
Outlawing abortion will work about as well as outlawing liquor did in the US in the 1920s. Or about as well as it did when abortions were illegal. They occurred, there was just a much greater chance that the woman would die.
And if you are so morally opposed to abortion, I hope that means that you have never put a woman at risk of getting pregnant.... and since all birth control has a percentage of failure that would mean no sex ever except for procreation. Or no intercourse anyway.
The birth rate has been going down for years, but the huge abortion numbers take it below replacement of the indigenous population. As a microcosm, look on this site as to who favour freely available abortion. Now look at who favour open-doors immigration.
Human life is sacred, whether its the life in a womb or the life that should not be ended at the end of a rope.
Life is life, I still believe in the words 'thou shall not kill'.
Typhoo
With comments like that I can feel Frank being lured onto this thread.
Colm,
I always welcome Frank's input. This is one time I won't give in, since I'm back from my 'you know' weekend. LOL
However, my stand on abortion, or that life is sacred needs no discussion as far as I'm concerned. I'm fully aware of all the pros and cons of it.
Thou shall not kill means thou shall not kill in my book.
Allan posted:
As a microcosm, look on this site as to who favour freely available abortion. Now look at who favour open-doors immigration.
Well Allan, here's something to chew on. I'm on the left. I'm against freely available abortion (I think the present law is about right) and I am most certainly against open-dooprs immigration.
So you'll have to construct a new straw-man.
I am in favour of freely available abortion and against open doors immigration. What does that make me ?
I'm against open door immigration too, but it hardly means I want them all killed off. I don't wish anyone any harm do you?
You are in favour of abortion what does it make you. Someone with a different point of view to me.
Typhoo - I truly admire your unequivocal position. While I wholeheartedly agree with your statements, I am still unwilling to endorse a legal ban on abortions under the first trimester. In a time of easy access to birth control and reproductive information I would like to see women take control and responsibility for their sexual actions, there is absolutely no need in this day and age for high numbers of abortion in western society. I don't think government should facilitate easier access to abortion, I believe they, and we as a society, should make abortion the exception, not the normative procedure it is today.
A side note to Frank and Allen - I find it amusing that you think Pro-life groups' are extremist and promote lies, while accepting Planned Parenthood and Naral as the voices of reason and truth in the abortion debate. Groups who advocate abortion on demand in the last trimester are extreme, groups (PP) who earned 345.1 million on clinic procedures alone as of June 2006, are in business - big business. I don't think you ought to base your liberal beliefs on those sources to support your arguments, they aren't exactly unbiased. Here's a non-right wing minority group talking about Margaret Sanger - http://www.blackgenocide.org/sanger.html - but their opinion doesn't count does it?
Typhoo
When I said what does that make me , I only meant in terms of the left right scale.
Daphne,
I agree with you partly, women taking control would be the answer, in most cases and it is already easy enough to obtain. Why they need to make it as though a woman were visiting the opticians is beyond my ken.
Thats not what you said Colm, I truly thought this is WIERD perhaps he is having a senior moment.
Colm, I think you are a reasonable and compassionate man, who tries very hard to make good decisions on difficult subjects.
In my opinion. :-)
Daphne,
He does try.lol
Oh, I so agree Typhoo! Abortion is made to seem like going to the dentist or something. It'a a very serious medical procedure that has emotional ramifications as well, that certainly aren't addressed by "mainstream" dogma.
My belief on abortion is that there is simply no point attempting to coerce a woman into continuing a pregnancy , especially in the early stages when she does not wish too. Attempts to do so are doomed to failure.
>>When I said what does that make me , I only meant in terms of the left right scale.<<
Colm, see that long dotted line under your last comment? See the word "Sunday" over it? I'd put you directly under the "S" on that scale, with the dot under the "M" in "Colm" being Monica Philadelphia and the dot under the "A" in "Attempts" being Jane Fonda.
Noel
Well there are two ways of seeing that position. Either I am an someone who tries to look at things on their own merits and tries to see things in the round and at a vantage point that can see both sides, or I'm a wishy washy can't make his mind up fence sitter .
I will leave it to others to decide which :)
Colm, I think you are rational. I like and respect your opinions. Plus you make me laugh like a mad bastard!
Noel, I have a book recommendation for you that's totally off topic...."Nam-A-Rama" by Phillip Jennings. I think you'll love it.
Thanks Daphne, I'll check it out. Is it for reading in bed?
Noel
Is that a chat up line :)
PS - careful if you try to woo Daphne with Tequila. It makes her do funny things !
Noel, it makes me laugh out loud, so if you like humor in the bedroom, go for it!
Colm, you're telling on me now.....
I'm the 'M' in Colm?? You don't even know me, Noel. You have no idea what my position on abortion is.
Daphne,
Here's a non-right wing minority group talking about Margaret Sanger - http://www.blackgenocide.org/sanger.html
Thanks for the link. I read it, all five pages of it. Here's what they concluded:
BTW, this "non-right wing" group describes itself as a national network of Christian pro-life/pro-family advocates who are dedicated to protecting the pre-born and promoting traditional family values.Now, where is your evidence of authenticity for the non-existent statements by Margaret Sanger that prompted my reply to your "human weeds" comment?
Hi, Monica.
How's the move going? Is it eating up your entire Labor Day weekend? I enjoyed the story on your blog about the seven boxes in your basement that you have moved numerous times and never opened. We have boxes like that too.
I wish you the best of everything in your new home, and my best to the girls (who are packed) and Troll (who is/isn't?).
Peter wrote:
"I'm against freely available abortion (I think the present law is about right)"
Abortion is freely available in the UK.
Allan is exactly right. The Abortion Laws havent been even vaguely enforced in this country for decades. Despite being passionately pro-life I have no real problem with the Law as it stands - just the fact that it is totally ignored.
And Alan with one L - the fact that you view being pro-life and pro-family as rightwing makes me very happy that I'm on the Right side of the centre.
Daphne,
"Groups who advocate abortion on demand in the last trimester are "
Non-existent.
Indeed the whole phrase "abortion on demand" is a(nother) malicious and nonsensical concoction of the 'pro-life'. It is designed to suggest that women wanting abortion are petulant little girls, stamping their feet, "demanding" an abortion. For no good reason, natch!
In fact nobody argues for abortion on demand anymore than they argue for birth on demand.
, groups (PP) who earned 345.1 million on clinic procedures alone as of June 2006, are in business - big business."
So is Religion. So is babyfood for that matter. So what. You're still missing a reason to ban abortion, as I see you acknowledge.
Thank you Alan. We had a rather nice holiday weekend - it was enforced as we really couldn't get much done anyway due to it being a holiday weekend. We are still looking at rentals, I had to UNPACK all of the school materials, and the house is being inspected tomorrow - the first day of school!
So it seems that I have spent the majority of my time unpacking instead of packing. lol.
(As for Troll, I am quietly throwing his insane, broken, packrat-itis junk away. A little at a time. Shhh. Don't tell him.)