BACK IN THE OVEN...
Wednesday, January 7, 2009 at 07:44PM 
Isn't it time that the Jews "went back in the oven"?.
Separated by battle lines and a stream of rush-hour traffic outside a federal courthouse last week, at least 200 pro-Palestinian demonstrators faced off against a smaller crowd of Israel supporters. That was the call from one pro-Palestinian protestor at a rally in Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
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Most of the chants were run-of-the-mill; men and women waving Palestinian flags called Israel's invasion of Gaza a "crime," while the pro-Israel group carried signs calling the Hamas-run territory a "terror state." But as the protest continued and crowds grew, one woman in a hijab began to shout curses and slurs that shocked Jewish activists in the city, which has a sizable Jewish population. "Go back to the oven," she shouted, calling for the counter-protesters to die in the manner that the Nazis used to exterminate Jews during the Holocaust. "You need a big oven, that's what you need," she yelled.
Now then - let's try a little ATW test. Will everyone on this thread condemn this vicious pro-Palestinian Muslim lady's cry? I'll start - I condemn her 100%. Do you?
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Reader Comments (92)
Oh yes David, I condemn her 100%
Don't wait too long for some of the condemnations, and don't expect much sincerity from some that are given.
Such excellent multiculturalism. Adds a lot to Florida I am sure.
I condemn it. A muslim friend of mine went to an event in Dallas and we had a bit of a row about it.
I unreservedly condemn this woman. As anyone should, condemn such hate, from both sides as well. However it seems unfortunately some people don't.
World weary whataboutry alert
Phantom the Daily Mail thread has revealed you for what you are.
Speaking on my own and Richard's behalf, I roundly condemn it!
(Tho at first I thought she was saying "Go back to the Netherlands")
Individual in question is scum who should be locked up for those words.
I'd like to see a TV crew track her down
The only hope would be Fox, as I doubt the others would have any interest
I want to learn a lot more about this honey
She wears the attire of "modesty" yet she hurls racial abuse in the street like a gutter harlot.
Who wouldn't, she's an idiot. She's already getting too much attention as it is.
I'd also condemn someone for shouting that all Palestinians should be killed.
>>I want to learn a lot more about this honey<<
Hard to tell an accent in such an uproar..
Is "ovens" a term people would normally associate with the Holocaust in the US? I think it is. In the UK/Irl it would be "gas chambers"
Both terms would be used here
Anyone calling for the genocide of a people should be condemned. This woman is making a mockery of the plight of the Palestinians and allowing oppurtunistic Zionists to shout.
I think I have achieved an ATW first!
My needling Noel all day long has achieved his very first unconditional condemnation. Normally he would have called this nonsense and told you to ignore it David. Possibly suggested it was a lie and you were a fool. Am I right or am I right.
Now if only we could get to grips with his Hamas defence - after all they say the exact same thing.
Do you condemn Hamas stated aims Noel? After all they have a tad more of an impact on Israel than this specimen.
Far from condemning the woman I am going to admire her honesty and willingness to say openly and truthfully what she feels.
While her comments are utterly repugnant that is Free Speech in action.
>>I think I have achieved an ATW first!
My needling Noel all day long has achieved his very first unconditional condemnation.<<
:) Well, it's not actually, and that's also not even your first unconditional lie.
However, over at "The Daily Mail's Darkest..." you did, I think, achieve an ATW first with Richard's courageous retraction of a slur against me (albeit after 5 pages! Talk about long retreats!)
>>Am I right or am I right.<<
Well, with that option, I think I'll have to say for the first time that you must be right!
But I promised that if you retracted the anti-semite claim, I'd answer your qeustions, so..
"Do you condemn Hamas stated aims Noel? "
If you mean the aim to totally destroy Israel, then very definitely, Yes. As I've said here countless times, I would love to see secure states for both Israel and the Palestinians and hope that some day they will all start living happily ever after, each in their respective states and in thier own peculiar ways.
Noel
On this and other threads you have defended yoursef from stupid slurs with great fortitude patience and perserverence. I salute you .
Thanks, Colm. As you seem to be the touchstone for common sense on this site, that means something.
I also salute your forebearance in resisting a quip on my mention of firing rockets at Patty.
Colm are you the resident suck up? There is nothing stupid about any of it - any more than Noel's own accusation that Israel supporters are "arab haters" as he accused them on another post.
Noel - I certainly researched your comments and went as far back as 2006 you may be interested to know. Such is your prevalence on this topic here. I found very little of the honesty you display now here.
I am now very glad I persevered with you to get that statement.
You should try throwing less random accusations around at David and Israel supporters and exhibit more of the balanced reasoning you show now. Certainly regards the instant reflex defence of Hamas you so often put up.
Their stated aims are repugnant as most decent people would agree here of this woman. Their part in the whole issue is therefore of equal measure regards securing safe states for both. Hamas has so far shown that it is less than capable or meriting with regards to that future.
Whether people feel any sympathy of defence of Hamas is "okay" is another issue.
Colm, then you would admire Goebbels for the same thing?
Charles
No because Goebbels was in a position of power and was just part of that power structure. However to be honest I don't really admire the woman. I just wanted to spice up the thread by adding a differently slanted comment from the string of simple condemnations.
That makes sense Colm.
Fort Lauderdale??
Free speech is free speech, it matters little what power Goebbels had. However uncondemned ignorant rabble rousing using that sort of rubbish this girl is using, served its purpose. It created the fear and hatred. It should be condemned, criticized and fought against. Anti semitism in it's harshest output was historically recent and has not gone away. The Jews are always hated. If anyone thinks it is a joke then I urge you to read this excellent op-ed piece:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/daniel_finkelstein/article5461544.ece
>>any more than Noel's own accusation that Israel supporters are "arab haters" as he accused them on another post.<<
1st Lie from Richard. I never said that. I said the war-mongers here are more motivated by hatred for Arabs than love for Israel.
And most of them are.
>>Noel - I certainly researched your comments and went as far back as 2006 you may be interested to know. Such is your prevalence on this topic here. I found very little of the honesty you display now here.<<
2nd Lie from Richard. How about this from your ex-antisemite:
"I think Israel is a jolly fine place, the place in the ME I'd no doubt feel most at home in, that I hope it and its people prosper in peace and that I'm glad it has the Bomb." (Noel Cunningham, on ATW 2 days ago)
If you had gone over the threads you would have found many examples of me supporting Israel's right to exist and evidence that I certainly do not support Hamas.
Listen, I'm fed up with your countless lies about what I am and what I said, so I'll make you the following offer:
I bet you that if I go over the threads of just the past few days I can find half a dozen examples of such comments.
If I do and show them here, you admit that you were lying about me supporting Hamas.
If I can't find enough, I'll admit that you are right and I am wrong.
OK?
If you don't take up this offer, I'll assume you know there are enough examples of the kind I said, but that you don't want others to know you are lying.
So, have you the courage to stand behind your claims?
Or not?
Otherwise please dont mess up another thread with your stupid whining.
Colm
I can only say that Goebeels at one time was a powerless man, as was Aloys Shicklegruber ( Hitler )
They became powerful over time. The weak today can become powerful tomorrow.
The fact that one is weak does not give them carte blanche to be cruel or to say hateful / racial things.
She has the right to say it, and I have a right to condemn her for it.
I hope the internal security apperatus of each of our nations however is taking pictures and gathering names of all these people as potential terrorists
YOu like the word lie Noel. That was not a lie. Who are the war mongers if not the supporters of Israel. You have accused them of arab hatred as their motivation.
And if I accuse you of jew hatred behind your Hamas defence which I did? Your reaction? So do give the lie stuff a rest.
I have to admit I am fed up with your inability to be honest! I have not found a single statement from you that gave me cause until today to believe you anything other than I said.
We could define what is acceptable as proof to avoid lengthy threads. Since you pranced around every example I cited of you defending Hamas as you not defending Hamas I could of course do exactly the same with your postings.
So yeah - I am quite happy with your suggestion. One dozen since this Israeli-Hamas conflict began.
Phantom
I would rather this woman be seen openly and unashamedly shouting such a vile thing than if she pretended not to hate Jews while secretly feeling exactly as she so willfully demonstrated. I do not support any restrictions on the freedoms of people to utter whatever opinion they have however gross. Besides, the utterances of this woman will damage the cause she supports far more than anything else that may have happend at that demo in support of it.
--Besides, the utterances of this woman will damage the cause she supports--
You'd like to think so.
Colm - I don't think we have to admire her for her view simply because it is heartfelt (although I agree she should be able to say it). She's a nut and the tourniquet on her head is obviously too tight.
I'm going to break silence and weigh in here for a moment. (not that any gives a rat's about my opinion)
Noel has always been openly supportive of the Palestinian peoples quest for sovereignty and autonomy. He has always been critical of Israel's handling of this issue. (He and I disagree on this matter, but...) He has never been critical of Jewish people or anti-semitic. He has never denied Israel's right to exist. And I have not read anything written by him that supports the terrorists acts made by Palestinian representatives or individuals.
I think he's completely wrong-headed on the Israel/Palestinian issue, but he's not a Jew hater or an anti-zionist. He's just a liberal.
As for Colm, he's one of the most decent men on this site - he never takes sides if he honestly doesn't agree and always speaks his mind.
I appreciate your point of view Richard, but if you're going to call out one (or more) of the regulars, you need to get your ammunition lined up better than you did on the other thread.
Phantom
It will amongst the 99% of decent sane moderate people on this planet.
Mahons
I have already said I don't actually admire this woman, that comment was just me being a bit mischievous.
Colm - Ah, what a nonconfrontational topic to be mischievous about!
Oh Daphne, Daphne, like a fleeting beautuful comet you make an oh so rare but oh so cherished appearance here again.
WE LOVE YOU DAPHNE. PLEASE DON'T FLY AWAY AGAIN !
That woman is a nasty pice of work - but this is America, long may she spew her crap in public.
Clearly I will have to post on this conflict to resolve all the tension.
Daphne
I have already retracted my statement that he is anti semitic. I actually just tend now to think Noel is a total cunt.
Largely from his flat out denial of his own remarks today and constant accusations of lies and many around here who cannot even be bothered to acknowledge that. I hardly had any time to go back over ATWs recent posts today when challenged though I volunteered what I found pretty quick. I produced enough "ammo" regards his defence of Hamas if nothing else. I made it clear that was the basis for my accusation. I asked him several times to reject Hamas stated aims.
So I wait with baited breath for his apparent robust defence of Israel and categoric condemnation of Hamas from the last few weeks, which was what was sought all through the other thread. I was perfectly clear on that.
damn, I left out an 'e'.....but y'all are smart enough to get my bad typing by now.
Daphne, Troll is horrified.
Mahons
"Colm - Ah, what a nonconfrontational topic to be mischievous about!"
Indeed
Colm I knew you didn't mean it but I must admit to being shocked that it would be something to be mischevious about.
Daphne
Good to see you break your silence. Please do so again.
I love your opinions Daphne
Hi David
Here are the events in Europe in support of Israel if anyone is interested in attending or you are interested in posting them as info.
Saturday, January 10, 2009
Rome, Italy
Date: Jan. 10, 2009
Time: 8:30 p.m.
Location: Parco di principi hotle
Sunday, January 11, 2009
London, England
Rally of Solidarity With Israel
Date: Sunday, Jan. 11, 2009
Time: 10:30 a.m.
Location: Trafalgar Square
Sponsoring organization: Board Of Deputies of British Jews and Jewish Leadership Council
Manchester, UK
End Hamas terror – Peace for the people of Israel and Gaza
Date: Sunday, Jan. 11, 2009
Time: 11 a.m.
Location: Albert Square
Contact: Jonny Wineberg, T. 0161 720 8721, M. 07930 534422, jonny@jewishmanchester.org
Frankfurt (Main), Germany
Demonstration for Israel's Right to defend itself and against Hamas Terrorism
Date: Sunday, Jan. 11, 2009
Time: 11 a.m. car corso
Time: 12 a.m. - a Solidarity Rally for the people in Israel
Location: we will (in all probability) meet at the Rebstock grounds (exact location will be disclosed after registration) and then drive in a silent car corso to the Old Opera – “Alte Oper” in Frankfurt where the rally is hold
Sponsoring organizations: DIG Frankfurt, Honestly Concerned e.V., Zentralrat der Juden in Deutschland, Jüdische Gemeinde Frankfurt, „I LIKE ISRAEL“ (ILI) e.V., B'nai B'rith Schönstadt Loge, Jüdischer Jugend- und Studentenverband Hessen (JJSH), WIZO Deutschland e.V., Jewish Berlin Online (JBO), Pro-Israel-Initiative "neveragain", Koordinierungsrat deutscher Nichtregierungsorganisationen gegen Antisemitismus (Coordinating Council of German Non-Government Organizations Against Anti-Semitism), Jerusalem Zentrum, ICEJ-Deutscher Zweig e.V., Jüdisches Forum für Demokratie und gegen Antisemitismus, Prozionistische Linke, Jüdische Gemeinde Wiesbaden, Zionistische Organisation Deutschland, AKIM Deutschland e.V., et al.
Contact: for corso register by Email to: post@honestly-concerned.org or by phone: 069-975856-14
Web site: http://honestlyconcerned.info/bin/articles.cgi?ID=PR21909&Category=pr&Subcategory=16
Frankfurt am Main
Demonstration für Israels Recht zur Selbstverteidigung und gegen den Terror der Hamas
Datum: 11. Januar 2009
Zeit: 11:00 Uhr Autocorso
Zeit: 12:00 Uhr Demonstration
Ort: treffen in Rebstock (genauer Ort wird nach Registrierung bekanntgegeben) und dann fahren wir in einem stillen Autokorso zur Alten Oper in Frankfurt wo die Demonstration stattfindet
Organisatoren und Sponsoren: DIG Frankfurt, Honestly Concerned e.V., Zentralrat der Juden in Deutschland, Jüdische Gemeinde Frankfurt, „I LIKE ISRAEL“ (ILI) e.V., B'nai B'rith Schönstadt Loge, Jüdischer Jugend- und Studentenverband Hessen (JJSH), WIZO Deutschland e.V., Jewish Berlin Online (JBO), Pro-Israel-Initiative "neveragain", Koordinierungsrat deutscher Nichtregierungsorganisationen gegen Antisemitismus (Coordinating Council of German Non-Government Organizations Against Anti-Semitism), Jerusalem Zentrum, ICEJ-Deutscher Zweig e.V., Jüdisches Forum für Demokratie und gegen Antisemitismus, Prozionistische Linke, Jüdische Gemeinde Wiesbaden, Zionistische Organisation Deutschland, AKIM Deutschland e.V., et al.
Kontakt: Für den Autokorso bitte registrieren per email: post@honestly-concerned.org oder Telefon: 069-975856-14
Webseite: http://honestlyconcerned.info/bin/articles.cgi?ID=PR21909&Category=pr&Subcategory=16
Marseille, France
Demonstration for solidarity with Israel in its fight against Hamas terrorism
Date: Jan. 11, 2009
Time: 3:00 p.m.
Location: in front of the Préfecture de Marseille (Félix Baret Place)
Sponsoring organization: CRIF in Marseille
Contact: Conseil Représentatif des Institutions Juives de France, Tél. +33 (0)1 42 17 11 11 or infocrif@crif.org
Website: http://www.crif.org/?page=articles_display/detail&aid=13110&returnto=accueil/main&artyd=2
Marseille
Manifestation de solidarité avec Israël dans sa lutte face au terrorisme du Hamas
Date: Le dimanche 11 janvier 2009
Heure: à 15 heures
Lieu: devant la Préfecture de Marseille (Place Félix Baret)
Patronage: le CRIF, le Consistoire de Marseille-Provence, le FSJU et l'ensemble des associations juives
Contact: Conseil Représentatif des Institutions Juives de France, Tél. +33 (0)1 42 17 11 11, infocrif@crif.org
Site web: http://www.crif.org/?page=articles_display/detail&aid=13110&returnto=accueil/main&artyd=2
Berlin, Germany
Support Israel to stop Hamas terror
Date: Sunday, Jan. 11, 2009
Time: 2 p.m.
Location: Breitscheidplatz close to Gedächtniskirche
Sponsoring organization: Jüdischen Gemeinde zu Berlin/ Aviva/ der Berliton
Contact: Levi Salomon 030 88 02 8 357, Maya Zehden 030 88 02 8 230; Sharon Adler sharon@aviva-berlin.de, 0179/ 3920 858; Avi Efroni: info@derberliton.de, 0176/66151 361; Jörg Fisher-Aharon: joerg@fischer24.eu, 0162/1694995
Web site: http://derberliton.de/de/news/latest/support-israel-demo-in-berlin.html
Berlin
Solidarität mit Israel - Stoppt den Terror der Hamas
Datum: Sonntag, 11. Januar 2009
Zeit: 14 Uhr
Ort: Breitscheidplatz an der Gedächtniskirche
Organisatoren und Sponsoren: Jüdische Gemeinde zu Berlin (JGzB), Sharon Adler – Aviva.de, Avi Efroni, derBerliton.de und weiteren Unterstützer
Kontakt: Levi Salomon 030 88 02 8 357, Maya Zehden 030 88 02 8 230, Sharon Adler sharon@aviva-berlin.de, 0179/ 3920 858; Avi Efroni: info@derberliton.de, 0176/66151 361; Jörg Fisher-Aharon joerg@fischer24.eu, 0162/1694995
Webseite: http://derberliton.de/de/news/latest/support-israel-demo-in-berlin.html
Monday, January 12, 2009
Vienna, Austria
Against the terror of Hamas – In support of Israel’s right of self-defense
Date: January 12, 2009
Time: 6 p.m.
Location: 1010 Vienna, Place of the Jews
Sponsoring organizations: Jewish community and non-Jewish organizations
Web site: http://www.juedische.at/TCgi/_v2/TCgi.cgi?target=home&Param_Kat=16&Param_RB=&Param_Red=11039
Wien
Gegen den Terror der Hamas - Aufruf zur Unterstützung von Israels Selbstverteidigungsrecht
Date: 12. Januar 2009
Time: 18.00 Uhr
Location: 1010 Wien, Judenplatz
Sponsoring organization: Israelitische Kultusgemeinde Wien unterstützt von jüdischen und nicht-jüdischen Organisationen
Web site: http://www.juedische.at/TCgi/_v2/TCgi.cgi?target=home&Param_Kat=16&Param_RB=&Param_Red=11039
>>(not that any gives a rat's about my opinion)<<
Oh, please don't say that, Daphne!
Your opinions, like you yourself, are like jewels - clear, beautiful and unfortunately far too rare...
Missed your anti-semetic retraction, Richard. Apologies.
Noel can be pugnacious and annoying on some topics. Accusing people of lying is pretty standard fare on atw, (so is calling people bigots, racists, nazis, brain dead twats, etc....they like to get personal and in-your-face around here) my advice would be to let it roll off your back and pick your battles with strategic precision. Pete Moore does it with incredible skill - a beautiful thing to behold.
He won't defend Israel on this one, so let your breath go and enjoy a stout adult beverage instead.
Good night for now, guys. Off to a fancy work-related dinner.
Aileen
Perhaps mischievous is the wrong word. That doesn;t describe my intention. My comment wasn't meant frivilously or humourously I was however being deliberately contrary while also trying to make a serious point about prefering to hear someones honest intentions rather than sly dissembling. The use of the word admire was wrong though. There is nothing to admire about this woman.
Eat a salad, Phantom.
I will. But will eat a fat steak also.
This is at Sparks which is a good steak house.
Its also where John Gotti got his mafia promotion by ordering the murder of the former boss man Paul Castellano. It will forever be known for that.
Hopefully no such shenanigans tonight
If work is paying, eat the most expensive courses in the restaurant and order the finest wine, champagne, brandies and coffee.