Brussels, 9/11 demo - SIOE England Organiser Speaks
Monday, September 17, 2007 at 09:32PM Brussels 11th September Stop Islamisation Of Europe demo
Prelude
When Anders Gravers and first I contacted each other in March this year and started Stop Islamisation Of Europe (SIOE) we knew that mobilising Europeans could be an arduous task.
We had long discussions about how best to achieve this and what would be the best unifying objective for Europeans.
It was obvious that although different countries had their own problems surrounding Islamism, every single person understood what Islamism and Sharia law were and how both were imposing alien standards on their lives.
Therefore, we decided to keep the message simple and not to confuse people with other matters such as “Eurabia, for example,” as this has several meanings depending on where one lives in Europe.
Being realists we understood that political parties would want to become involved with the movement.
By their very nature political parties attract their own opposition and we wanted SIOE to present a broad front opposed to Islamism and Sharia law in Europe.
Our Aims and Rules made it clear why people should shake hands, both metaphorically and in actuality, on their political differences and unite for just one day on the one thing they agree on, their opposition to Islamisation, which we consider to be the most acute threat to Europe, and perhaps the rest of the non-Islamic world.
Members of political parties are usually more willing to participate in political activity, but SIOE wanted less active, but nevertheless still concerned, people to participate opposing Islamism.
We wanted to overcome the “I won’t go because they are going” attitude by encouraging anonymous anti-Islamism demonstrations, where ordinary people would feel comfortable in participating is such events, incognito, as it were.
As most people do not belong to political parties, but most favour democracy, the right to assemble, free speech and equality before the law, regardless of gender and ethnicity, we considered it prudent to approach the vast majority of European folk who are concerned with the encroachment of Islamism, but find both party politics and some political parties distasteful.
Presenting a shield of unity to the media would make it difficult for them to categorise demonstrators into the usual “left wing,” “right wing” boxes.
This would also allow SIOE to work with political parties and organisations, without passing judgement on their other policies.
As both political parties and organisations would not be carrying identifying logos etc, prejudgement and lazy journalistic tagging of demonstrators would be made more difficult for the media.
All parties expressing an interest in attending the demonstration agreed to comply with our Aims and Rules.
However, this was not to be.
Firstly, Brussels Mayor Thielemans’s ban of the SIOE march on 11th September made many groups representing ethnic minorities drop out immediately.
Many such people are law abiding and want to be seen as such.
Some are fed up with being mistakenly associated with Islamists and felt that it would be counter productive for their communities to attend a demo that had been banned.
Secondly, Udo Ulfkotte, the leader of Pax Europa, unilaterally “cancelled” the demo, without consulting Anders or I beforehand, and despite him having absolutely no authority to do so.
This had devastating consequences as literally thousand of misinformed people, especially from Germany and Belgium where Ulfkotte’s “cancellation” was repeatedly broadcast on television and radio, believed the demo to not be happening and, quite reasonably, never went.
The demonstration
The SIOE demonstration was scheduled to start at 12.00 in Luxembourg Place in front of the EU Parliament.
A petition of 10,000+ signatures was intended to be handed in to MEPs at the parliament at the start of the demo before proceeding to Schumann Square outside the EU Commission where speakers would address the rally.
Here a minute’s silence to commemorate the victims of the 9/11 2001 Islamist terrorist attacks was intended to be held before dispersal of the protestors.
On arrival in Luxembourg Place Anders Gravers and I were immediately met by high-ranking police officers who told us the demo was forbidden and that we could not proceed to Schumann Square.
A few minutes later we were told that arrests had already been made, and were still being made at a second demonstration organised by the Flemish separatist party Vlaams Belang.
Until that time Vlaams Belang had been a good ally to SIOE and promised us much in facilities for press conferences, for example, and legal assistance for SIOE demonstrators.
There was a huge melee of media in Luxembourg Place and both Anders and I were assailed by hundreds of reporters.
Because of our relative inexperience with the press on such a large scale, control was wrested from us at times and we were always playing catch-up with events, rather than being in command.
Some arrests were made in Luxembourg Place, and we are still determining how many exactly, although I saw only two.
Answers from police to our questions were that they were only administrative arrests because the arrestees were not complying with our rules, previously agreed with the police.
We later discovered that this was not necessarily the case with at least two arrests.
However, we were informed that greater restrictions were placed on SIOE’s demonstration because of events at Schumann Square where we understand over a hundred people were arrested and the police were heavy-handed.
We were also informed by people arriving in Luxembourg Place that people were being turned away from there, even as they were leaving the Metro, and Luxembourg Place had a cordon around it keeping people away.
We later learned that people, some being ordinary tourists, were also arrested on suspicion of going to the demonstration.
All in all it was difficult for us to determine what was going on at times and we made our best efforts to salvage the situation, successfully handing in our petition and at least some demonstrators holding a minute’s silence for the 9/11 2001 victims.
The goal of establishing an anti-Islamism network was attained and SIOE branches are being started across Europe.
People came from afar, notably two busloads of Czechs who travelled 1000 km to be there.
Many lessons have been learned, not least how we must handle the press on a large scale while still maintaining strict control.
Also, reporting back of events as they happen is imperative, although we feel this would have happened if our goal of a single SIOE demonstration had been met.
We think a wonderful opportunity was missed where a single demo against Islamisation could have achieved more.
However, we are determined not to dwell on this and will make sure that domestic politics, if not put to one side, are at least accommodated to the satisfaction of all.
Two more demos are scheduled, the first in London and the second in Marseilles.
Other activities are also underway, besides demonstrations, and we are building a European-wide mutually supportive network of active groups.
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Reader Comments (40)
>>we knew that mobilising Europeans could be an arduous task.<<
Probably convincing them that there was a danger of Sharia Law in Europe would be even more arduous.
Agreed Noel, it's ridiculous to even attempt to claim we're a few years away from becoming the new Talibanland.
Please keep us all posted on the London march , I will be there . I,personally ,have now drawn the line in the sand , I will not retreat on more step where my liberties are concerned .
Colm
Can you lay off the personal stuff.
Thanks mod.
So you guys don't agree with the message.......I would bet you don't agree with the Islamists message either, but don't you think these people have the same right to their march as other politically motivated groups?
>>don't you think these people have the same right to their march as other politically motivated groups?<<
Daphne, of course they do.
>>I,personally ,have now drawn the line in the sand , I will not retreat on more step <<
I daresay that line in the sand will be blown away with the first gust of wind.
I will not retreat on more step where my liberties are concerned .
doc, its not islam that is taking your liberties away. its your own government who is giving them away. and what makes it almost laughable, is that you are assisting their efforts by scapegoating someone else.
Islamism is a two-pronged attack
1. Islamists making demands upon non-Muslims to alter their behaviour because Islamists are offended
2. Our politicians making demands upon non-Muslims to alter their behaviour because Islamists are offended -
with the added incentive of producing "hate" laws to shut people up.
Of course our politicians apply shameless double-standards, selectively denigrating and penalising people who dissent from the move towards Sharia law, Sarkowsi's Mediterranean Union, the Eurabia project, and the mass collective control that will result from the EU moving into the "post democratic era" (Mandelson).
Of course, Turkey being the first Islamic country to join the EU is an absolute must for all of the above to happen. The evidence that Turkey has swung to Islamism (is this to the "left", or the dreaded "right"?) via the democratic process is to be ignored.
Judging by the fervour of some of our politicians for Turkey to join the EU ASAP, we can reasonably assume that such politicians welcome an Islamic Turkey.
SIOE believes this is actually the case and we will fight such Islamisation regardless of what labels our lazy media pin on us.
Whoever it was that deleted my comment which wasn't at all personal , why did you do it .(my edited 11.31pm) . I have never had a comment deleted before and if this site is going to start being run in such a ridiculously Stalinist fashion where even light hearted comments are removed it won't be worth commenting here. That would be very sad as I like ATW a lot and I don't write anything abusive or obscene here but in order to thrive it shouldn't become humourless or ridiculously censored .
Noel wrote:
"I daresay that line in the sand will be blown away with the first gust of wind."
What do you mean by that, Noel? Would you assist the wind or sand aside? On another thread you berate anyone who opposes gays in the Chuch: do you think that gays should be allowed into islam?
Colm,
In case you're wondering, I didn't delete your comment. I tried filtering out Frank's comments a while back, but that's just because Frank never adds anything decent or good. I wonder if anybody does know who deleted it. I'd be quite interested to know, myself.
>>What do you mean by that, Noel? <<
Allan, I meant that it is precisely those intentions that are announced with such bombast that have least staying power. No more than that.
Just to set things straight. While I have no admiration for MrSmith's views, I admire his commitment in going to Brussels to protest them.
>>that gays should be allowed into islam?<<
Yes. Also, I don't particularly like the religion Islam; I don't like its tenets and even less its art.
The difference between us is that I don't think there is any real threat of Islamic law ever being enforced in Europe and that I think Muslims in general, like all members of different religions groups, are decent people and should be treated decently.
Colm, I noticed that, and I echo your thoughts exactly. It's high time David stepped in on this. His site is namely going to the dogs if some upstart can delete comments such as yours last night (which I recall was nothing more offensive than "All you can offer is blood, sweat and tears and some pounding on your typewriter."). No wonder people like MR don't want to comment here anymore. If people like Mr S had his way ATW will soon have the quality of a public toilet wall.
Noel, you may not believe that sharia law will be enacted in Europe but muslims, being so violent and dangerous, are permitted by the lib-left to project power greatly in disproportion to their numbers. For example, a curtailment of gays in society will not be driven by the dreaded Christian right-wing, but by muslims. Look how the local authorities in Brussels ahve capitulated to muslims. Would a gay pride march be permitted there?
There is some cause for optimism in that polls show that a majority (narrow though) of muslims would not wish to see sharia law in the west. This means that they would live by kufr law, which means that they are not true muslims and would be open to persuasion to leave islam if they wouldn't be murdered by their former co-religionists for doing so.
Noel,
"If people like Mr S had his way ATW will soon have the quality of a public toilet wall."
Not sure what you mean by that, but if I assume you were making an attempt at relevance, I must repeat that I have not deleted or amended Colm's comment. I may be a thought-criminal, an 'islamophobe', a bigot, etc, etc, but I believe in free speech (except, as stated, in the case of Frank O'Dwyer, who I believe should be bound, gagged, and left in the hold of a cargo ship headed for deepest South America from John O'Groats) and have not tampered with any comments on this thread.
MrSmith wrote:
"I tried filtering out Frank's comments a while back,"
"I believe in free speech (except, as stated, in the case of Frank O'Dwyer"
The last word? Well, I guess that falls to the most recent comment not deleted. (No offence to the proprietor of this blog, but comment censorship only serves to make your own arguments appear weak, else why would you hide those of your opponent?
"Frank never adds anything decent or good. "
Exodus 20:16 : Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
For every pretend warrior who went to Brussels for the anti-Islamic circle jerk, give me one United States Private First Class Kareem Khan who died in the service of his nation in Iraq at the tender age of 20 on August 6, 2007. He happened to be Muslim.
P.S. Frank - nice OT touch.
I accept Mr Smith's denial that he deleted my comment , but someone did. Was it Typhoo ?. Is that what she meant when she wrote that she did something she shouldn't have. Did some mysterious power take revenge and cause ATW to crash .:)
But seriously, I disagree with any comment deletions unless thay are to remove grossly offensive, obscene or libelous comments, and if Mr Smith did trawl through threads to delete Franks comments then that was wrong too. Let freedom reign on ATW. Don't turn it into an approved commentary only blog. There are too many of them around as it is.
'that's just because Frank never adds anything decent or good'.
And what if we think that about you Mr Smith? The fella who gave us: women who have abortions in january: whores or drunks - question mark.
Alison
I'm hoping Mr Smith wasn't being serious when he talked about having tried to filter out Frank's comments. If he seriously did that I doubt David would approve.
Colm: I agree. Frank is consistently one of the funniest and insightful contributors - especially when I disagree with him.
Colm: I cant comment ;) Me and Mr Smith got into a deleting contest a while back. He kept deleting Franks comments so i deleted his back - it got out of hand. What can I say. The fella doesnt like Frank. (Or me! lol). Re the site David has final say, yes.
Well if Mr Smith really is in the habit of removing comments for personalised reasons then David should clearly remove that power form him. That is not in the spirit of what ATW is about.
Colm: David has the final say so im not sure he can be arbitrarily deleting comments (unless people swear or start insulting etc). He can set his posts up as 'read only' which is his perog. The spirit of ATW is dissent...that means its always going to rock a few boats. What comment went missing anyway, what did you say?
Look how the local authorities in Brussels ahve [sic] capitulated to muslims. Would a gay pride march be permitted there?
Well Allan, there was a gay pride march in Brussels May 12. So I guess it would be permitted.
Alison
My comment was a tongue in cheek response to 'the doctors' Monday 11.19pm comment where I answered his 'Churchillian' line in the sand remark with a comment about him offering blood toil tears and some furious tip tapping on a keyboard. That was it,no swearing , no obscenity just a bit mocking yes but hardly too offensive that it had to be removed.
Colm, just to clarify, it wasn't me who edited your comment (I thought I had better state that, as I have admitted to deleting the comments of banned persons, several months ago, so perhaps you might have wondered if it was myself in this case - it wasn't).
Tom
I never thought it was you. You wouldn't do that.
It's a great mystery. A whodunnit?. Who is the mysterious figure with the censors pen creeping around ATW slashing decent innocent folks comments. Come out Come out you dastardly fiend!
To my detractors , I may be a silly old fool but I am an honourable one , I blame no one but myself for having to draw a line in the sand . If you knew me you would know that the sand I draw in is damn hard , it will not blow away , neither will my principles . I was part of the
" establishment " ( in some ways I still am ) but experience taught me to see beyond the obvious . My posts can be a bit obscure , that is a penalty of a philosophical education , however do not underestimation the strength of my determination . No one will ever use me to further their own ends again , not the U.K. or E.U. governments , when the call comes I will answer ; will you ?
Doctor
I think I will let the call go to voicemail !
(not edited by mod)
So sad , I had hoped for reasoned debate .
Doctor
The tone of your comments don't encourage reasoned debate. What is meant by the overdramatised rhetorical flourish of "When the call comes I will answer ; will you ?
..the sand I draw in is damn hard , it will not blow away..
And how can that statement be debated ?
More character assassination, eh? Well well. Ok, for whatever a 'pathetic little convert's comments are worth:
Colm - Lest you be misled, I am not 'in the habit' of trawling threads to remove Frank's comments. I simply didn't want his mental disorder contaminating my threads. Which is to say, threads I posted. (The fact that Alison trespassed on my thread and started f***ing around is another story entirely.)
Frank, Alison - If you two think lifestyle abortions and all that shit is 'decent and good', that calling inhuman and evil words what they are by stating that they're not decent and good is a bad thing, then all I can say is.... Well, nothing nice, anyway.
Frank - Stalking me across blogs is pretty f***ing creepy. Don't you have, I don't know, a job? A life? Something more beneficial to do?
Oh No, I am not going to start another censorship row here Mr Smith. I don't want this to go the same way as the 'Over here' thread .
PS - If Frank is stalking you , aren't you flattered ?
It isnt another story - it is exactly as ive said it was! And yes I do Mr Smith i think lifestyle abortions are just beautifuuuull.
Oh no we can't have any squabbling amongst ATW's guest writers. We've had enough of that tonight.
theres always a leg to yank!
But it's that time of night when we should be getting a legover!
Well, I'm out of here for the night. One thread at a time, anyway. Alison, here's your opportunity to come clean and admit that I've never deleted or moderated comments on your threads, but you did to mine. Then we can talk about the story being 'exactly' as you said. I'm still a pathetic convert-in-progress, remember? What's your excuse?
I admitted that at the time Mr Smith ooooon your thread !