If the blade exceeds certain length, and that restriction is part of the law, why shouldn't illegal possession of such a weapon merit not only arrest, but some custodial sentence?

If you read what he says it makes complete sense and it's refreshing to see him underline the need for common sense. This is, as he says, only about knives 'stuffed down the front of tracksuits' intended to commit a crime and with respect to those prosecuted as such. Let's hope the libertarians don't try and wreck this next attempt to reduce horrific crime because on balance there are remote remote chances an angler coming back from a fishing trip might be arrested for ten minutes because he was carrying a knife.

Mahons

I believe that in NYC / NY State it is a prosecutable offense to carry a "switchblade " or other knives, including those exceeding a certain length.

I think that Mr. Cameron's suggestion is a good one--I'm kind of amazed that there's currently no sanction in the UK for carrying switchblades etc. Unless its a "God given right", bla bla.

I think a blanket ban on carrying large knives will inevitably mean that people who have them for legitimate purposes will get jailed.

What about the Boy Scout with his pocket knife? I keep my nephew's, in case he does a boyish thing like take his pocket knife to show and tell at school. We don't need the boy in jail!

People with knives for legitimate purposes can still commit murder.

What about the boy scout with a pocket knife who feels like murdering one of his peers.

Besides any of this it's about intent. Arresting someone with a knife under suspicion of intent and securing a prosecution with evidence on this basis would be a wholly good thing and it is that which Cameron is proposing guys. He is not suggestinfg we round up anglers and boy scouts for the hell of it and throw away the key.

As usual, the liberal in Cameron gets it hopelessly wrong:

We have got to send a clear message that carrying a knife on our streets is completely inexcusable and unacceptable in a civilised society" he said in a speech in Scotland.

Rubbish. In a civilised society the carrying of a knife would present no danger to anyone. The point is lost on most liberals, of course, that British children now are increasingly devoid of morality, lost to any parental or other legitimate authority and in no danger from a weak and feeble criminal justice system and therefore recognise no moral bar or personal cost to carrying or using knives.

As usual, it's the liberals who have delivered us into this particular Hell and it's the liberals who have nothing useful to say about it now.

There has been major success in forcing men who kerb-crawl to attend workshops on the reality of prostitution, or have to go to court.

I'd try sending knife-carriers to weekend workshops on violence related matters, and see if there was any positive results in reducing the problem.

--In a civilised society the carrying of a knife would present no danger to anyone.--

That would be one in which people never get into fights, separate and apart from any crime/mugging issues?

I agree with all the teen stabbings in London something must be done, but the gov tends to overreact.

Charles - Do you want your nephew to go through streets where there are people with dangerous knives on his way to show and tell?

What hysterical nonsense. There is alreay an illegal knife blade length, caught carrying one of those without a legitimate reason, then yes, a custodial sentence should be mandatory, but trying to getting the judiciary to pass such a sentence might be the real problem.

Of course, that knives, of various lengths are also the tools of many a trade, and often need to be transported from location to location, e.g. butchers, fishmongers, carpet layers etc, etc..goes way beyond the thinking of those of a statist mindset.

How would one get a purchase of, say, and for purely culinary purposes, a french chef's knife, home after making the purcahse?

A combination of a 'hoody' and a knife down ones trousers is most definitely a sign of malintent, and should be treated accordingly.

Perhaps if the police were allowed a modicum of discretion, as they once were, we wouldn't need to get into all this 'new law' mania that NuLab is so fond of.

I see that "Gordon Brown has introduced 2,823 laws during his first year in office."

Link

Phantom,

When I was a kid, every boy had a pocket knife, and we frequently got into fights, but we would never, ever, consider using a knife as a weapon in those days.

The difference now, is that, as Pete Moore says, the children are becoming more and more devoid of any sort of morality, and the judiciary are becoming evermore reluctant to dispense justice or punishment.

Mahons, That's my fear. I stand at the shore of our trash culture like Canute commanding the waves not to crash down on him and sweep him out away from me. What's a great-uncle to do?

What hysteria or overreaction. Cameron's? The parents of the 2 Frenchmen killed?

A discussion has been a long time coming and is wholly justified off the back of the latest horrific murder in a long line of murders.

A measured discussion centred on common sense in dealing with arrests has been proposed about a serious problem.

Of course that common sense be applied, as was suggested by Cameron, in relation to people carrying knives legtimately, versus gangs carrying with intent to cause harm eludes the civlibbers whose refusal to even read the actual points Cameron made rather makes them look 'hysterical' (Ernie Wernie)

The police already have stop and search powers Ernie. The intention here is to be able to do something about the knives they find on those gang members as opposed to letting them off with a caution.

Know any buthers or fishmongers stopped searched and let off with a caution lately? Do share.

Actually Im amazed you wish to credit them with that much Ernie, such is your disdain and overall whitewashing for the police generally. Maybe you forgot. Perhaps that's what they refer to as a senior moment.

ernest, not convinced its devoid of morality, kids are wised up these days, much more than we were.

I'd look towards the factor of alcohol in teens, something we never had access to.

--I'd look towards the factor of alcohol in teens, something we never had access to--

Huh? We could buy beer at the age of 14.

yes but 21 yrs old is the legal age in America.for consumption.
Over here we have youth gangs who are regularly drunk.
Is that phenomena over there.?

How could you buy alcohol 14?
doesn't make sense?

The drinking age was 18 at the time. And I was a tall lad that looked a bit older than I was.

Please, God...save me from idiot lefties. They have zero common sense. And apparently no respect for individual rights to privacy or freedoms.

The left only cares about "people" in theory -- somewhere in the distant utopian future - meanwhile the left welcome the search and seizure of items belonging to law-abiding citizens on the off chance that such citizen might - someday - use the item in an anti-social fashion.

The left is not capable of realizing that it is already illegal to intentionally cut someone with a knife. The left also is incapable of thinking that a criminal capable of stabbing someone is capable of hiding a knife and certainly not interested in obeying a law.

Criminals are not going to wake up and think to themselves: "Gosh! Knifes are illegal! Better not tuck one into my track suit!"

Here's an idea: enforce laws already on the books.

What about bricks? Bricks can be thrown at someone's head. Shouldn't bricks be banned?

Or hands? Shouldn't people be required to wear some sort of binding cuff on the outside chance they might hit or throw something?

In fact that's the solution to all sorts of crime - theft, illegal bum pinching, the middle finger insult etc.

Just put everyone in some sort of cuff lock and crime disappears - voila!

Well, criminals always find a way, don't they...especially if conviction and punishment is weak, and it certainly doesn't help that law-abiding citizens are prevented from self-defending..but whatever...

From the article:.

The tories are going to "repair a broken society?" heal the "wounds of poverty?" This is political pap, sheeple. Rhetoric. Another law - and one that hinges on the "common sense" of individual police, no less.

God help the citizenry of the UK.

Patty you on speed, or just eaten a burger?

Coffee and no sleep.

patty,
my guess was worth a stab in the dark, oops poor joke ;)
Take care of yourself, its tea here, 10 cups a day.
Nervous system, incorporated

Knife laws vary here

Lots of states ban the carrying of daggers, bayonets, stilettos, switchblades, etc., including California, Patty.

Makes complete sense to me.

Nice try, Allie Wallie, - changing the subject of the thread from street and gang crime to one of general criminality.

As I pointed out, we already have the laws to arrest knife carriers, we just need the will to implement them sensibly.

My point re tradespeole carrying knives is perfectly valid, and yes, there have been several stopped, and they were allowed on their way, because they had a reason to be carrying the knives. Under your hysterical 'jail them all and throw away the key' demands they may well not have been released without a lot of trouble.

Under your line of thinking(sic), we could end up being jailed for carrying rope or stout string, before much longer...

I don't think anyone is suggesting tradepersons be subject to this. Fishermen, Bakers and Carnival Knife Throwers can, I presume, sleep peacefully. The legislation is targeted providing the authorities with the tool to combat knife violence and gangs in a sensible way.

Not that it really matters, but for the record may I also point out that laws regulating carrying knifes in both the UK and the US were historically introduced by conservatives. One of their more sensible ideas.

It's a call to enforce existing laws, it looks like to me.

I carry my knife everywhere I go - I've never stabbed anyone yet. It is a legal knife, though.

Monica: I hope not to get your point. Nothing wrong with carrying a legal knife.

"I don't think anyone is suggesting tradepersons be subject to this. Fishermen, Bakers and Carnival Knife Throwers can, I presume, sleep peacefully. The legislation is targeted providing the authorities with the tool to combat knife violence and gangs in a sensible way."

Of course not but that won't stop some pedant police officer, maybe under pressure from the local Chie Constable to improve targets from taking the easy option.

Chief even!

Exactly Mahons. Though it is a discussion and not yet the hysteria some pretend.

Ern. Just trying to get you versed in the facts as you have gone off half cocked as usual. I suggest spectacles to assist with your reading all round. Starting with the very first sentence in the linked article.

We know we have laws. You cited them but failed to note the punishment or the issue. The issue is about cautions and punishment with respect to those caught in stop and search carrying knives with intent. You can pretend all you like some angler is gonna get chucked in the slammer for carrying a legit knife or the cops will swoop on a man at a BBQ with a steak knife held in an unyielding fashion over a hunk of pork but that is not what is being discussed by politicians at all - who even bothered to suggest what needs to be taken into account!

Matt: A pendant police office is another issue, and the happening of such instances of overzealous action on behalf of a police officers are clearly outweighed by the necessity to effectively reduce crime and discourage illegal knive carrying youths from illegally carrying knives.

A way round the knife ban for the law-abiding would be to carry a ceremonial sword in a scabbard.

Back in the 50s, it was very common to see a lad wearing a Sheath Knife on the back of his belt, which usually meant he belonged to a scout group.

The importation & proliferation of black gang culture is largely respnsible for this infection spreading to the rest of the community. Simple as that.

Mahons,

A remedy has long been suggested - that the police should get back on the streets, where they belong, and patrol the worst areas and trouble spots, rather than sit in offices and driving around in cars all day.

It worked in New York, and it is the answer here. I is a rare thing to actually see a policeman 'on patrol', and if you do see one, it is more than likely in an area where old ladies can even cross the road quite safely on their own.

In the roughest areas of our cities, the only copper you will see, is in a BMW, and going at a fair rate of knots. It is often supposed that he is the one going to pick up the doughnuts...

Ernest - I am all for foot patrols, which would further remind the dim knife-carrying crowd that if stopped for a legit reason and found to have an illegal knife, they are going to prison.

One of the ways the foot patrols in NYC worked was by giving the cops this kind of tool.

The problem we have in our society at the moment with the use of knives is overwhelmingly a youth violence one. I am absolutely in favour of mandatory and lengthy jail sentences for the crime of carrying an 'offensive weapon'. It is not a new law. It has been on our statute books for decades. It just needs to be reinforced and yes that means the police targetting youngsters and to hell with claims of discrimination or oppression, and it means the courts being required by law to enforce tough sentences.

Youngsters need to fear the consequences of walking out on the streets with knives . At the moment thay don't.

"A pendant police office is another issue, and the happening of such instances of overzealous action on behalf of a police officers are clearly outweighed by the necessity to effectively reduce crime and discourage illegal knive carrying youths from illegally carrying knives."

Agreed. But which option will the Police take. The law abiding, probably middle-class citizen who is going about his law-abiding business or the feral yob who might actually use the knife to stab that Police Officer.

The Police have enough powers. All they have to do is use them properly. They won't however when they have political priorities.

Percy: haha. re: "stab in the dark"...switching to green tea and sleep... before I shoot myself in the foot. (even if it isn't the current weapon of choice.)

What kind of knives are we talking about here? Swiss pocket knives are one thing, carrying around a butcher knife is quite another. Sounds like you just need to enforce your current laws and start cracking down on these youth gangs.

There was an excellent note in today's Times which read approximately as:

"With regards to the source of the epidemic of knife crime, shouldn't we have the courage to call a spade a spade when discussing the risks."

Youth gangs, Daphne? Sounds a bit like 'les jeunes' who destroy cars and housing estates in France. Just part of growing up, is it?

Allan

I guess you are getting at the topic of race in these matters. Fair enough, we need to speak truth about who is commiting these crimes regardless of sensitivities, and it is clear that a disproportionate number of black youngsters are both perpretators and victims of these knife killings . If this means police disproportionately stop and search black youngsters then they must not shy away from that or be pressured against doing so.

I didn't know what color they were Allan, just that they were teenagers. It doesn't matter though, whatever color, the police need to get serious with these young men - harass them, search them, arrest them, dog their every step until they get the message that their violence won't be tolerated.

'shouldn't we have the courage to call a spade a spade when discussing the risks'

Surely the journalist was not saying.....

an unfortunate choice of phrase , but subliminally maybe ?

An old Alfred Hitchcock TV story (circa 1960) had a disgruntled housewife use a frozen leg-o-lamb to bludgen her husband to death.

Then, when the detectives arrived to investigate and search the house for the deadly weapon she offered them a nice evening meal of...? You guessed it: roast leg-o-lamb.

Maybe government should close all butcher shops for dealing in and selling "deadly weapons" to the public?

Seriously, if how can the public be made secure from someone intent on doing them harm. Many of the Yank Southern States encourage honest citizens to purchase hand guns to keep in their nightstands as protection. I read somewhere the murder rates in those states are lower than the Northern ones with strict gun laws.

Eddie - You have to expand your reading beyond works of fiction, our southern states have some of the higher murder rates. The issue here however is not legal guns, but illegal knives. No one pretends that laws can end all assaults, rather that sensible restrictions on obvious weapons can assist law enforcement.