Monday
29Sep2008
Damned if we do
Monday, September 29, 2008 at 06:32PM The bottom line, this economic bailout is wrong. Both parties at the best aren't telling us the truth. At the worst and honestly viewed they are out and out lying to us.
The damage that the GOVERNMENT has caused in the financial markets has brought us to a crises. Now the same Government that poisoned the waters are now going to purify them. BULLSHIT!
With or without this bailout the system is collapsing. The urgency in rushing this "fix" into place is pure politics. Bush is in a panic, the Democrats see an opportunity to seize control of more of the countries economy, and power and the Republicans are deaf dumb and stupid.
This problem was caused by Governmental policy, NOT Free Markets, Not Capitalism and NOT Greed on Wall Street.
The Government has finally reached a point of largess that the support beams can't handle it and they are collapsing. The system was designed for minimum power and control at the top. The pyramid of power has now and this bailout clinches it has completely flipped.
The question is what is left and what is right. The writers on political philosophy measure various issues in the term of parties instead of political power. This is not how the system was designed. To define our government system in the terms of parties is a fraud. The far left communism and the far right fascism are not opposite extremes but identical twins. They are complete government control just by different philosophies.
The founding fathers viewed it differently, they viewed it as the extreme left being tyranny and the extreme right being anarchy. The Founders concluded that at one extreme Anarchy no government, no law, no systematic control. Tyranny on the other is too much control, too much political oppression, too much government.
We are reaching the point of Tyranny.
From The Founders' Unchanging Principles of Liberty
Principle 13 - A Constitution should protect the people from the frailties of their rulers.
"If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary.... [But lacking these] you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself." - James Madison
Principle 15 - The highest level of prosperity occurs when there is a free-market economy and a minimum of government regulations.
Prosperity depends upon a climate of wholesome stimulation with four basic freedoms in operation:
The Freedom to try.
The Freedom to buy.
The Freedom to sell.
The Freedom to fail.
This bailout and this government is violating the very founding principals of our republic. Our leaders should also remember the 11th Principle
Principle 11 - The majority of the people may alter or abolish a government which has become tyrannical.
"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes ... but when a long train of abuses and usurpations ... evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security." - Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence
It is reaching that time. This seizure of power and violation of who and what we are is being contrived for a purely political power grab. All dictates and rules of the constitution are being tossed aside.
And it is no coincidence that this false crises is occurring right before an election.
Preamble to the constitution
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Preamble to the bailout
To provide authority for the Federal Government to purchase certain types of troubled assets for the purpose of providing stability to and preventing disruption in the economy and financial system and protecting taxpayers, and for other purposes.
This is a seizure of power to empower pure government socialism.
Ha Ha Ha the Bill FAILED in the house!
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Reader Comments (36)
Well we are certainly damned if we don't. This is a credit crisis, and capital is the answer. I am afraid it will save those who don't deserve being saved, but at least it will not ruin those who don't deserve to be ruined.
Heck, two weeks ago you would never have seen the story of giving 25 billion to the auto industry as anything other than front page news, now it is like throwing a deck chair off the Queen Mary.
when there is blood in the streets thats when it's time to buy.
The system is still going to collapse the only diffrence is that istead of the bank or whatever getting the loss the american taxpayer will.
if enough of the banks were allowed to fail the system would correct itself.
during the savings and loan crises 20% of the banking industry failed and we survived because the system readjusted. Then the government steped in and put into place the items that caused this crises
LOL the bailout bill just failed to pass in the house
Splendid news.
The Sons of Liberty probably wouldn't have bothered if they knew one day Congress would attempt this.
Now let's see if the rejection is as doomsday as they said!
Dennis Kunich (sp) called for rejection of the bill last night!
I wouldn't want to win the battle and lose the war by throwing the economy into a free fall from which it may not recover any time soon
There will be a re-vote and I hope that it passes
Big whoop. So did Ron Paul.
The "people" want to punish Wall Street, what they fail to realize is that we are Wall Street - 401Ks, Mutual Funds, etc. If congress can't get their act together we are about to see our investments and retirement accounts get wiped out.
If congress adjourns until after the election without passing some sort of remedy, people will start losing jobs and the economy will begin to tank.
I bet the republicans would pass the bill if it promised to criminally investigate the executives at Fannie/Freddie, the regulatory commission charged with overseeing it, along with Dodds and Frank.
And the Republicans will be seen as the bad guys on this and will not see real national power for 25 years.
Obama and Pelosi and Reid will run riot without any oppostion that has teeth.
The ideologues had better think twice
Daphne, I like Ron Paul.AndI agree wholeheartedly with "The "people" want to punish Wall Street, what they fail to realize is that we are Wall Street - 401Ks, Mutual Funds, etc."
I bet the republicans would pass the bill if it promised to criminally investigate the executives at Fannie/Freddie, the regulatory commission charged with overseeing it, along with Dodds and Frank.
that should be being done anyway.
Daphne Markets rise and fall leave your money in and over the long run it will still be more than any thing the government will ever give you
Where does all this depressing news leave us? Well, maybe we can turn for advice to one of the European giants of banking and investment of the eighteenth century, the famous Rothschild family. It was Baron Meyer Rothschild who, in the wake of the Battle of Waterloo in 1815, made a killing buying real estate when everyone else was panicking. He's credited with the popular investment adage, "Buy when there's blood in the streets." What he meant, of course, was that when all other investors are in terror of their lives, unable to even think about making a profit – that's the time for the smart businessman with the tough nerves and the cool head to acquire assets like there's no tomorrow.
Daphne -
Assets with inherent value - stocks, gilts, property, commodities, will bounce back. If you want practical economic policy implemented, hope someone in DC wakes up to the astonishing American national debt.
Infinitely more important than the bail out is the Constitution and limited government. It's the foundation of the wealth of the American people. If you take this giant stride down the path of big government (you're already well along it), future generations will not thank you.
Troll
The baron gave good advice but I still support the bailout.
Phantom
the problem would be better fixed with a cut in capitail gains and removal of Mark to market and the CRA
In case anyone is starting to worry if their bank is shaky.......
Strongest and weakest banks,
I don't know how accurate this list is.
Daphne, on your link Wachovia gets a b+.... didn't this bank fail today and get taken over by Citibank ( 1 doollar a share)>?
--cut in capital gains and removal of Mark to market and the CRA--
Would support movement on all three items.
We're all doomed !!
Its only money bro.
Could lose it all, and won't ever jump out the window
Might push someone else out though!!
I think they may go with a new vote on a scaled down bailout. Meanwhile, the market will being going down like a streetwalker during Fleet week.
I would post a list of who to push Phantom but I don't feel like a visit from the secret service
Nancy Pelosi's partisan rhetoric just before the vote sure did not help. That is not statesmanship- especially when you know that many in both parties oppose this on principle.
Good to see some sense prevail in the US congress. Yes, there'll be a stock market crash, and a recession, possibly even a depression, but house prices & mortgage equity had become a ridiculous 'bubble' that was always going to burst sooner or later.
And once the markets have bottomed out, the whole idiotic cycle will start all over again.
Surely all the financial buzz on Wall Street, over the past 10 years at least, has generated gigantic revenue for the exchequer. Maybe this bailout should be seen in the context of how much WallSt has, and will again, contribute to Uncle Sam.
Phantom is talking sense here. Apart from the human misery a major downturn will cause, it's also possible that if the US economy goes into free fall it will never again be able to recover the enormous loss in value, position and reputation.
Sure. No problem with a depression, so long as our ideology wins out, right?
it's also possible that if the US economy goes into free fall it will never again be able to recover
That is no small possibility, esp in a far more level international playing field than in decades past, with so much manufacturing and know how already in China, etc.
There is no natural reason why the US must always be the world's economic leader.
If we implode our own economy for ideological reasons, there is no good reason to believe that it will be restored as quickly or as fully as we may hope.
It's that old sticking plaster joke again: When removing a plaster from any hairy part of the body, you have two choices, - pull it off quickly and have pain, - or pull it off slowly, and have pain!
The real tragedy - behind the tragedy, is the total lack of trust that we the people, (both in the US and the UK), have in our politicians and legislators.
And the fault for that doesn't lay with the voters, but entirely with every lying, conniving con artist of a politician, who ever stuck his hands in the cookie jar, or his nose in the trough, and all in the name of 'public service', or 'serving my country'.
While the blame doesn't rest with us, the shame most certainly does! the shame of falling for the smarm, the lies, and the platitudes, the shame of ever having voted for any one of them.
That such a system corrupts even those that start with the highest principles, only adds to that shame.
Can a society ruled by such people ever be called 'civilised'? - I don't think so, it bears too much resemblance to the law of the jungle...
The only ideology I'm advancing is that "you can't buck the market", Phantom. I'm not coming at this from a political angle.
Throw $700bn at the problem, you'll only buy time - a few months if that. Throw $700 trillion at it, you'll only buy a few years. The mere fact that a public bail-out is being considered, will undermine long-term confidence in the market and cause a crash, all by itself. I mean, would you buy shares in any bank right now? No, me neither. And if I was looking to buy a house, I would be inclined to sit tight and wait for the prices to tumble.
The only reason this "bail-out" nonsense is even being voted on is that no political party wants to be the one that is in office when the inevitable happens, because that will lose them votes. So they're happy to use our money to keep themselves in office.
Huh, at least your Congress actually got to vote on it. Over here, such formalities are already regarded as wholly unnecessary. Bugger Bognor.
Ah, but a similar enough process actually did work to untangle the S&L crisis ( the S&M crisis was unaffected, however )
oh hell #1 it's not going to be a depression the market is far stronger than being portrayed. #2 With manufacturing and drilling and expansion of all markets overseas it is time for a restructuring of our government rules on business.
The EPA and the lawyers has to brought under control, coal, steel, and oil need to be produced internally GOVERNMENT and the Unions stand in the way NOT the free market. Cafe standards need to be removed from our auto industries
Development can not be stopped by the kangaroo rat or the 7 year tree frog.
WE are our own problem. Sometimes it takes a fire or two to make things grow or correct the faulty wiring
The S&M crisis? That must have been a very painful time!
The representatives' phone lines were jammed all day with constituents raising holy hell about this bill. The American public doesn't seem to want it.
Fascinating day - I really didn't expect this outcome!
Monica
I was dining with an American two days ago who was bemoaning the fact that her daughter, who worked for Fannie Mae wouldn't be paid her bonus (she's a lawyer by the way) she might even have to wait until next March for her payout. Payout for what failure, when are some of these people going to get it. It's greed that has brought the system down and why should it be bailed out. One of the problems is though, is that if the bill doesn't get passed, all those companies with problems will be considered private and the golden parachute' kicks in. My opinion is that the bill will get passed, not for Mr Big but all the small savers and retirees who will be penalised if the US goes bust.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaKkuJVy2YA
The Last sentence is prophetically wrong!