EVEN IN DEATH...
Thursday, November 27, 2008 at 08:37AM There was a terrible road accident in Northern Ireland at the weekend in which four police officers were sadly killed. The media are debating as to whether Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness will attend the funerals of any of the four PSNI officers but Sinn Fein said that the party would be represented at the funerals or wakes. However yesterday, when asked if Mr McGuinness, was intending to attend any of the PSNI funerals a party spokesman declined to answer directly. He said: "The protocol would be that local Sinn Fein people would attend their local funerals, and members of the local DPP."
I have to be honest and say that the prospect of a man whose organisation has killed hundreds of police officers turning up at a police funeral to pay his respects is pretty obscene to me. I would not view his attendance as an advance but as a further sinking into the moral mire.
It's like a Nazi turning up to mark Holocaust Day.
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Reader Comments (39)
Could you not have resisted posting this and spare a thought for a grieving family? Did you really need this dig at McGuinness or the rest of them? Could you not allow him to be buried without controversy?
For God sake.
One ofthese funerals was very close to you yesterday, this is not the stuff to debate....
I was wondering if the crash would be covered.
What a tragic accident. The poor families.
Kloot,
It was a tragedy.
Gosh,
The media didn't leave it - why should I?
What's this "The protocol would be that local Sinn Fein people would attend their local funerals, and members of the local DPP."?
These are private family affairs. If anyone else wants to attend they can be polite and ask the families.
Sinn Fein are representative of the Nationalist community , the PSNI are a cross community police force. Its reasonable that they should go. Allthough they could ask the families if they want them their. Some might , some might not. I think this is a situation where their damned if they do and damned if they dont.
And the RUC were not a cross community police force , so it is welcomed that all sections of the community can go to a dead policemans funeral. Thats progress
"These are private family affairs. If anyone else wants to attend they can be polite and ask the families."
I think that is implied Pete. What he means by it is that he won't be attending, or asking permission to attend, but local members of the party, especially local members of the Police Partnerships, will ask the families can they attend and, if given permission, those people will attend.
"It's like a Nazi turning up to mark Holocaust Day."
Firstly, I point David to Godwin's Law. Unless it is a post specifically about the Nazis, or a form of mass Genocide, then it is against the rules of an internet debate to argumentum ad Hitlerum. Basically, unless it is a post about Genocide or the Nazis or Nazism in general, which this is not, it is ungentlemanly to use Nazi connotations in an internet post.
Secondly, is it not better now that Republicans are going to Police funerals rather than causing them?
Thats progress
Yes, Paul, it is.
Seamus - Well done on invoking Godwin's Law. I always find constant references to Hitler or the Nazis uncouth and intellectually lazy.
Gosh,
The media didn't leave it - why should I?
I was going to post lots of links about how the media treated it sensitively. The front page of the newsletter/telegraph etc all have pictures of people greiving. This pits the funerals against martin mcguinness....thats all.
Since you didn't even include a sentence of sympathy for the families, it did come accross more than a little insensitive. But thats down to you.....
People need comfort at a time of greiving, I hope they find it.
Oh and to push a point, your link is about representation I don't see this being debated in the media.... If it is its very low key.
I have to be honest and say that the prospect of a man whose organisation has killed hundreds of police officers turning up at a police funeral to pay his respects is pretty obscene to me.
To me its a sign of how far we have come. So Im in agreement with Seamus and DC. Although in fairness many of us consider it as catching up ;)
It's like a Nazi turning up to mark Holocaust Day.
No it isnt and its an insult to everyone to claim such a thing. Actually, its below pathetic.
1. Godwin's law does NOT apply on ATW.
2. Sorry to those who find my description of McGuinness offensive. His existence is offensive to me so get over it.
The fact that SF even recognise the PSNI is something that took years, it was a huge turning point for Republicans; and now they're even sending a DPP member.
The progress is to be applauded by all right thinking people, who are concerned about peace on our streets.
You've got your views David, but seriously I'm having trouble deciding between Cro-magnum or Neanderthal, as a descriptive metaphor for these prehistoric thread outbursts.
Having you been watching the Flintstones again?
You'd be whinging if SF didn't go, not that I'm a fan of said party.
Shinners didn't recognise the RUC because they're psychopathic savages.
They recognise the PSNI because the 'peace process' has given them the opportunity to control it.
Obviously then its fine to compare the old RUC to the SS then isn't it?
>>Shinners didn't recognise the RUC because they're psychopathic
savages.<<
Perhaps, but that's no reason to go out and shoot them!
'I would not view his attendance as an advance but as a further sinking into the moral mire. '
I don't think it matters what you think at all David. It is up to the grieving families and the Sinn Fein people in the area.
Advances toward stability and peace are being made every day, and the population seem to agree, according to the polls.
'It's like a Nazi turning up to mark Holocaust Day. '
Not at all. And very silly to say so.
The RUC were indeed psychopathic savages,
SF do not and will not control policing pete moore, keep up
The impasse has been about devolution of P&J
Its been agreed not to have a Justice Minister from either the DUP or SF
"I have to be honest and say that the prospect of a man whose organisation has killed hundreds of police officers turning up at a police funeral to pay his respects is pretty obscene to me. I would not view his attendance as an advance but as a further sinking into the moral mire."
David, would you view a British Soldier, from the First or Second World Wars, for example, as being inappropriate if he attended a funeral of a German Soldier? Considering his organisation killed hundreds of thousands, possibly millions, of German Soldiers.
There's some bollocks being talked here by the usual provie supporters!
Digest this - the PSNI which is so acceptable to you has more RUC men in it - the force so unacceptable to you - than PSNI men.
Lurgan
and if you listen to hugh orde, he's determined that never again will officers break the law, in order to uphold the law.
That's the difference, and that's why we support the PSNI
So you accept the majority-RUC PSNI.
That's great.
Pinky,
My view does matter on this blog. Elsewhere I could not care less.
However I do accept that my remark comparing Nazis to Provos was offensive. To Nazis.
Good aren't we Lurgan?
50:50 remains a target, which I hope you support, as you're good also right?
'Pinky,
My view does matter on this blog. Elsewhere I could not care less.'
It is as it should be then. Your opinion matters o this blog.
'However I do accept that my remark comparing Nazis to Provos was offensive. To Nazis.'
Nonsense.
'So you accept the majority-RUC PSNI.
That's great.'
Lurgan, it is great.
Do you accept provos running our country?
That's great too.
PETE , its nothing to do with controlling the PSNI. A police force is supposed to be reflective of the community it polices , thats very simple. When it all kicked off in the late 60's when IRA men were not killing catholic or protestant policemen; The RUC were not reflective of the community. The truth is that the RUC were the upholders of the protestant state , it was an extention of protestant culture. Not for me to say it , but I think most protestants believe that and would make no apologies about it
Percy,
50-50 might well happen and of course I welcome the Catholic community joining a British police force.
It might have happened years ago if young Catholic men hadn't been stopped from joining by their own community.
Pinky, I also welcome provies joining the British Establishment.
So all is fine and dandy, then?
Great progress.
I like it when everything is fine and dandy. Make love not war :)
ahh you give yourself away there Lurgan.
Its the Police Service of Northern Ireland.
perhaps its minds like yours that started the troubles in the first place by Lording it over and Winding up the taigs.
One to watch..
Paul -
A police force is supposed to be reflective of the community it polices , thats very simple.
That's simple rubbish. The police uphold Crown Law. The uniform is everything, who wears it is not important. If the individual cannot divorce his identity from the uniform he can hand it back to the Crown.
The truth is that the RUC were the upholders of the protestant state , it was an extention of protestant culture.
Good grief. The RUC upheld the Law of the protestant Crown. What planet have you just arrived from? The United Kingdom is a protestant constitutional monarchy. It cannot be anything but a protestant constitutional monarchy because the constitution makes it so.
The Kingdom is a protestant Kingdom. It's not an extension of protestant culture, it is protestant culture.
Not for me to say it , but I think most protestants believe that and would make no apologies about it
Quite right too, and I'm a catholic.
Whoever the grumblers are, whatever their gripe, if people don't like it in my country they can sod off.
Pete,
You think that Northern Ireland is like anywhere else in the United Kingdom , I believe it is not. I do not believe the same rules apply. A protestant constitution or government or whatever could not work here. It just wouldn't be fair.
Pete,
Spot on.
And, Pete, it was thinking like that that caused the Troubles and the deaths of 3,500 people.
"The United Kingdom is a protestant constitutional monarchy. It cannot be anything but a protestant constitutional monarchy because the constitution makes it so."
The United Kingdom does not have a codified constitution. The part of the "constitution" that you speak of is included in one Act of Parliament and as such has as much baring on the constitution as any Act of Parliament.
People are naturally going to rebel when faced with such hostility from the State. Your opinions if put into practice would just cause more fighting and "terorrism".
Pete's
You can understand then why the act of union which brought Ireland into the fold was such a reckless one. It could never have worked when faced with that mind set and it regularily was. Was it the mad king George III that spoiled all the fun when he refused catholic emancipation at the time of union much spoiling Peels plans
Ultimately both faiths are on the wane. Which is one of the reasons that relations in these isles are on such a good footing these days.