Does a new political force = merger which means the UUP would cease to be a seperate independent party? If that is the case why should the UUP, a long standing party disappear of the political map? Is what they're offering similar to conservatives in Scotland and Wales, if so that would equal the absorption of the UUP into the conservative party, and I do not blame Reg Empy or anyone in the UUP to reject this offer.

Neither the SDLP or the UUP should be forced to merge with any party, but normal politics is welcome here to lift us out of the political rut, and the sooner it comes the better.

Cameron's move has nothing to do with the north really. The Tories barely exist outside England which makes their attempts to be a pro-Union party hard to sustain.

They want to be able to point to the Unionists when this question comes up.

Gosh, the majority of the proposals, as far as I am aware, aren't a merger between the UUP and the Tory Party, but a merger between the UUP and the Tories in NI. It would exist in the way the CDU and the CSU operate in Germany. At a Bavarian level, the CDU do not operate, while at a Germany wide level, the CSU take the CDU whip in the Bundestag. In the case of the UUP and the Tories, at a Northern Ireland level, the Tories will back away and not operate, but at a Westminister level the UUP would take the Tory whip.

"The Tories barely exist outside England which makes their attempts to be a pro-Union party hard to sustain."

The recent Politics Home survey of marginal constituencies concluded that they are likely to be the largest party in Wales after the next election. Scotland is a problem for them of course.

Seamus debate develops and there is a merger debate going on....

keep up.

McGimpsey says no to tory merger

and:

ConservativeHome warmly welcomes this initiative. Although the Conservative Party has been contesting NI elections since 1992 this potential merger represents a serious opportunity for the Tories to emerge as the only party with seats in every part of the UK. Northern Ireland residents should be able to vote for non-sectarian parties and for an alternative to the big state politics of both the DUP and Sinn Fein."

here

also: please read Henry's point above.

I agree that there will be what would be the effect of a merger, but I would imagine that in the event of a deal that you still wont see Reg Empey standing under the Tory label. It will be a pact, similar to what the Conservatives had with the Official Unionists before 1972, which enables the UUP to differ from Tory policy on a local level, ie the retention of Academic Selection, while at a UK level they would toe the Tory line on all issues.

I also have to question the galling hypocrisy of Reg Empey when he stated that he had concerns over a SDLP and Fianna Fail merger, stating that how could Fianna Fail be an effective mediator if they contested elections. I would ask a similar question of Tony Bla... David Cameron.

Seamus you need to make your mind up :)

It will be a pact,

Not really.

Here is a comment from Mark Davenport's blog which I think explains things and lays it out for the reader:

7pillars said:

1 A merger had been discussed but the UUP were not ready to down that road.

2. What is now on the table is a formal working relationship under the NI Conservative and Unionist Council.

3 This relationship would mean joint selection of candidates who would in the case of Westminister accept the main Conservative manifesto and in the case of Stormont an NI manifesto which although Conservative in nature would be modifed to suit local NI requirements e.g. Grammar schools.

4. The Conservatives would inject funding (�40,000 has been mentioned including the 12 months run up to an election) and campaigning expertise into seats they would target as winable, probably 4-5 in the first instance, and limited amounts into less winable seats.

5. The leadership of the UUP and the exxecutive are broadly in favour of the relationship with the exception of some such as Lady Hermon and Chris McGimpsey, but are nervous of the electoral outcome.

6. The Conservatives are becoming frustrated at the lack of progress and the inability of the UUP to take a decision and the UUP are afraid to take a decision as they are unsure that it will lead them back into power and yield the promised increase in votes.

7. The one thing that is clear to both sides is that in neither camp are there a bountiful supply of people who would make professional candidates that could signal a new start in non sectarian politics. This would mean looking outside current incumbents and hopefuls to find people who would be credible candidates. This would be acceptable to the Tories but would the UUP find it palatable to ditch some of their current incumbents?

8. The UUP need the money and expertise or would probably face a slow death over coming elections as they become irrelevant so in reality have little option but to proceed to have at least a chance to get back into power.

9. The Tories need to make a breakthrough in NI and this is the time to do as power is calling in Downing Street, without the relationship it will take a long time to finally replace the UUP.

10. So what will really happen? It is probable that a deal will go ahead because both parties know it is in their best interests to make it work; money and power are powerful motivators and they are both in play in these discussions. Whatever happens in the longer term the future of the UUP is in looking increasingly unsustainable as on one hand money is in short supply and on the other a realtionship with a much bigger partner will almost inevitably end in a marriage after a short engagement.

11. The DUP are very unhappy and have been thrown off balance at the prospect of taking on a merciless machine that has the potential to derail their progress or at least apply the brakes to their progress.

12. It will be an interesting run up to the European Election, look for Jim Nicholson the Conservative and Unionist candidate to do well and cement the relationship.

The comment sounds about right.

Either way this comment in the blog post hereSo they may miss yet another chance to restore their fortunes, which is a shame is both right and wrong. I don't think their fortunes will ever be restored.and it is indeed a shame.

As things stand, all NI parties have a philosphy that is essentially socialist.

This is the consequence of having had no real responsibility for several decased and the knowledge that they can call for public spending as a cure for every ill in the sure and certain knowledge that they do not have to exlain where the money comes from and blame someone else if it does not arrive.

Elements of the UUP have an appetite to be admitted to real world politics. Others do not. There is a latent middle class vote, including some Roman Catholics, who would come out and vote for a mainstream, national, non sectarian, right of centre, grown up party that would behave responsibly and which had the potential to actually get elected. They have had no one to vote for for a long time and have been disenfranchised.

NRG, I can agree with that, good points.

Though the non sectarian element could also cause major problems, initially anyway. Recently, a Conservative in Northern Ireland launched a wee bit of a rant against the Orange Order. If the Ulster Unionists, following a merger with Tories, are to harness any sort of Catholic vote then they will need to cut ties with the Orange Order. While they have done this officially, the UUP, through their unwavering support for the Orange Order, appear to catholics, even catholic unionists, to be more protestant than unionist. I believe it will be the same after a merger were they will appear more protestant than convservative.

Yes that is what point 7 of the post above states, that new candidates would need to be found, but I think the OO reference is outdated.

Seamus, good points, a Conservative revival in NI could only grow out of Unionism and there would be baggage, but it would be a starting point not a finish.

I believe that the Conservative Party wont be able to get rid of that sectarian element for a generation. Until Reg Empey, and McGimpsey and McNarry and the others, the catholic people, even those catholic conservatives and catholic unionists, will continue to see the Conservatives as a party with massive links to the Orange Order.

What I can see happening in Northern Ireland is that we will eventually enter normal politics, but in a sectarian way, with 2 conservative parties, 2 socialist parties, 2 liberal parties etc with each side having their own. I don't believe that the Politicians in Northern Ireland can ask the public for a fresh start.

I believe that in order to create a truely non sectarian pro-union party, like Cameron wants to create, it will need for the old vanguard of the UUP to disapear.

"I believe Cameron WILL become the next PM of the UK and he is clearly reaching out the hand to the dispirited disorganised electorally shattered Ulster Unionists"

Here is the thing. I don't think he will be. You heard it here first folks, I think Gordon Brown will be Prime Minister after the next General Election. David Cameron currently has a 12% lead in the polls, and my calculations put him with about a 40 Seat Majority if the election was held today. If there is one iota of an economic improvement, the Gordon Brown's position will improve.

1% swing, Tories with 10% lead, will lead to a Hung Parliament. A 5% swing, with the Tories still with a 2% lead, will give Labour a majority in the next election.

If it is a hung Parliament, then a Labour/Liberal Democrat coalition is more likely than a successful Conservative minority government or a Conservative/Liberal Democrat coalition.