Saturday
23Feb2008
History Class: 20 years after WW II in America,
Saturday, February 23, 2008 at 06:14PM Two Americas, 20 years after WWII.
1965…. Man of La Mancha opens on Broadway. The original production ran for 2,329 performances, and won 5 Tony Awards. Don Quixote “came to a world of iron to make a world of gold.”
1969…overindulged children of the “Greatest Generation” gather in open farm fields to scream obscenities with Country Joe McDonald and the Fish. Baby boomers discover “sex, drugs and rock-and-roll,” and never look back.
in America
America 
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Reader Comments (25)
Looks more like the History of Entertainment Class to me.
In 1965, The Persecution and Assassination of Jean-Paul Marat as Performed by the Inmates of the Asylum of Charenton Under the Direction of the Marquis de Sade won the Tony for Best Play, and in 1969 that award went to The Great White Hope while Best Musical was won by 1776.
[On a personal note, I had the honor to appear in our local version of 1776 staged to honor the bicentennial. I played James Wilson, the character who casts the deciding vote.]
Not 2 Americas. One America, and it's variety of citizens enjoying the freedom of living in a nation that doesn't prescribe a state approved culture.
Alan Frost-McDOnald: Any relation to Country Joe, BTW ? :)
Anyway, your comment above is very similar to the one you made on the other thread, and you seem to be "stuck on stupid." Are you unable to grasp the difference between "specific and personal" , and "general and applying to large groups?".
Because you have one rotten apple one day doesn't mean the whole barrel is bad. But if you discover that every barrel is full of rotten apples, I think you can then assume the harvest is bad.
Neither Marquis de Sade, nor 1776 were large trends.
Any relation to Country Joe, BTW ?
Turns out I'm not, but he seems like a really great guy, and a veteran to boot. As Patty would say, Why not peruse his site a bit and see what he has done, and what he is up to? Then, form your judgment. Oh, and as for the obscenities, such words are entirely appropriate given the circumstances.
Have a nice day. :-)
Patty
You obviously subscribe to the Rightworld view that the Vietnam war was lost on the campuses rather than in the jungle. You're entitled to that view. But don't try to smear a whole generation as traitors.
Patty: Among your delusions (which now appear to almost be a form of free association) seem to be the idea that Broadway is some counterpoint to Woodstock, which would of course be somewhat curious to the original casts of Hair and Godspell for instance.
In any event Alan is one of the smartest and nicest people on ATW. I think that would be a consensus opinion. He is not nearly as sarcastic as me for instance, and is far more patient in debate. Since you are neither smart or nice I'd suggest more hestitation before calling other people stupid. I would dream that someday you'll post something that shows intelligence, but then I would be dreaming the impossible dream - much like Don Quixote.
Ooh you can be a bitch sometimes Mahons ;)
>>The Persecution and Assassination of Jean-Paul Marat as Performed by the Inmates of the Asylum of Charenton Under the Direction of the Marquis de Sade won the Tony for Best Play, <<
Did you ever see it, Alan? I think 'twas the most impressive play Ive ever seen (though I was at an impressionable age when I saw it).
>>I played James Wilson, the character who casts the deciding vote<<
Let's hope next November will be another case of life imitating art with you!
Otherwise, all very well said, Alan.
>>overindulged children of the “Greatest Generation” gather in open farm fields to scream obscenities with Country Joe McDonald <<
They weren't obscenities, Patty, they were those "battle cries" that you used to excuse "Suck-my-dick" Dollard.
>>Among your delusions ..seem to be the idea that Broadway is some counterpoint to Woodstock,<<
BTW, heard some hard-hitting anti-war films are going to feature big on Oscar night.
They weren't obscenities, Patty, they were those "battle cries" that you used to excuse "Suck-my-dick" Dollard.
Brillant riposte Noel. Patty hoist by her own petard.
BTW, heard some hard-hitting anti-war films are going to feature big on Oscar night.
Watch out for the usual "traitrous commie Hollywood" cries from Rightworld. War = good. Peace = commie filth surrender monkeys.
LOL!
I think that the philosophy of "sex,drugs and rock and roll" was hedonistic and very destructive. I hate the fact that the left in America is so anti-American.
I blame over-indulged "useful idiots", and the influence of post-modern German philosphers like Nietzche. ;)
And Noel and Colm: Can't you understand why a warrior/journalist like pat dollard - responding to islamic redicals attempting to curb the free speech by using the legal system against a web site - is right and proper to intentionally use an obscenity? (hint: what is hate speech?- that is the question, isn't it?)
This differs from thousands of little 20 year olds sunning themselves on a weekend of rock and roll (and sex and drugs) mindlessly screaming "F***" into the air because some older guy with a guitar told them to.
Mahons: Alan isn't "stupid!" - His argument is stupid! I'm talking trends, he's talking personal anecdotes. While popular I don't think you can call Marquis de Sade significant. What's another word for "stupid?" -- Stuck on Wrong? It doesn't seem strong enough.
Oh,BTW, sorry you don't like me. Get over it! ;)
Peter: Few care about the Oscars because few have seen the movies up for awards. Don't be surprised if the only sound you hear is silence.
Patty
I can understand more ,someone shouting an obscenity, and if Pat Dollard shouted it in the vicinity of a CAIR free speech stifler I could understand it's impact because even when expressed inanely along with a mass crowd such expressions are meant to be physically cathartic at best and expressed vocally and loudly have some purpose, but I cannot understand someone passively typing them on a keyboard to print on an internet blog. Typing such expressions makes no sense to me.
I hate the fact that the left in America is so anti-American.
The left objects to inappropriate use of American power. For the right there is no such thing, except for promoting family planning in Africa.
Patty
Two years ago Rightworld was up in arms about the oscars awarded to Brokeback Mountain.
>>but I cannot understand someone passively typing them on a keyboard to print on an internet blog. Typing such expressions makes no sense to me.<<
Colm, Dullard in fact uses this and other obsceneties several times on his blog, and if you click on the self-made war video he was foolish enough to include, you will hear the F-word uttered probably more times that by the "little 20 year olds" at Woodstock, despire their being around 300,000 in number.
Patty's sudden distaste for the word is of course just the usual hypocrisy; but I doubt if there has been such a blatant volte-face within such a short time on ATW before.
True Noel, I wish Patty would just be honest enough to admit what is so blatantly obvious - that it is simply the political direction of expressed obscenities which determines her attitudes towards them, nothing to do with military culture.
Alan: I think you've made a stupid mistake, here. (Or, probably I should say a "wrong mistake" to keep Mahons happy.
Your link pulls up a Vietnam Veteran who died in VIet Name.
Country Joe lives in Berkeley, California. Still fighting the "good fight" against the "man" (sarc.) but he's alive. You can find him here:
http://www.countryjoe.com/#who
Noel: You know way too much about the English language to be unaware of the importance of words within context. Shame on you for holding an absolutist's line on the use of obscenity when it suits you in your attempt to try and wrest the moral high ground regarding obscenity away from a "rightworld" inhabitant like me.
Don't follow Noel, Colm. He's just trying to make me look bad. :) :) :)
Colm: "I cannot understand someone passively typing them on a keyboard to print on an internet blog. " Really?? Here goes....I'll try to explain:
1. CAIR has reported Little Green Football to the FBI for "hate speech."
2. Little Green Footballs posts a link to Pat Dollard for CAIR to follow because they obviously go to his website.
3. On Pat Dollard's site - you find an obscenity directed at CAIR.
Alan: I owe you an apology! Mea Culpa - that link of yours was country joe m. I read to quickly the "killed in action" bit and then lost the link. Sorry. Joe IS a vet. Still a scoundrel...but a Vet!
Patty
I certainly don't share CAIRs determination to stifle free speech and I would never seek to prevent Pat Dollard or anyone else expressing themselves however they wish, I just think swearing in written form looks pathetic whatever the context. In immediate hot blooded voice it can have a purpose but in text it always looks juvenile, and I say that regardless of the politics of any individual who uses it.
Colm: Funny. But I am taking a zero tolerance approach to the Empress of Rightworld. SOB that I am.
Patty: I dislike plenty of people, many of whom are intelligent. I don't dislike "you", you are a character named Patty who happens to be on a site I frequent. I've no idea who you are. I do find your comments to be those of an arrogant fool but life is full of them.
Odd that you didn't recognize the song reference in my comment, it is from the play you cited as some sort of continuation of the boys who stormed the beaches of Normandy. In any event, among the resean they fought is for the freedom of expression, exhibited perhaps extremly to your tastes at Woodstock, but in a purely American way.
Noel,
I didn't see any of the shows from the 1965-66 Broadway season because I had already left New York for Detroit. I was fortunate enough to see the wonderful Man for All Seasons and Camelot with the original cast, so now I know all about English monarchy, both real and imagined.
The best off-Broadway show I ever saw was Jean Genet's The Blacks. The only version of Marat/Sade I have seen is the movie with Glenda Jackson.
BTW, heard some hard-hitting anti-war films are going to feature big on Oscar night.
"No end in sight" is on Google Video. Which is excellent. Though i preferred "Iraq for Sale".
http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6182969183854471645
there are also entries on google for: "Taxi to the Dark Side" and "Operation Homecoming". I have seen neither.