Disturbing figures, David.

The word is that the Celtic Tiger won't be growling for too long more. If that's the case I wonder how the Republic will cope with tens of thousands of Muslims down on their luck. I foresee major friction.

32,500 is less than 1% of the population of the Republic, so islam has some way to go before Sharia becomes an issue.

However, a recent statistic was that 15%-20% of the working population of the Republic was born outside Ireland. If correct, the change in the makeup of the population in the Republic must be one of the fastest ever seen in any European country for centuries, if not millennia.

David,

Do you mean Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland or the Island of Ireland?

I'd be pretty concerned if I lived there. You won't change them. They will change you.

One word; welcome.

''One word; welcome.''

Agreed.

ABC,

I think that's how most people here feel. Research carried out last year (which I played a minor role in gathering) certainly suggested so.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/muslims-give-their-blessing-vast-majority-very-happy-here-says-poll-65184.html

Absolutely JG. Infact the few muslim families I know in Dublin are also welcomed by their neighbours. As neighbours, they are not loud or disorderly or drunk, and are very friendly.

Thanks for the info in the link btw.

Your're welcome, ABC. That has certainly been my experience.

'they are not loud or disorderly or drunk' 'friendly'

How retro christian of them.

So do the new neighbours have any problems with gays or women at all? Equality at the front of their general outlook? Or is it a case of brush that under the carpet. (It is Ireland after all)

''So do the new neighbours have any problems with gays or women at all?''

Not as far as I know . Gays and women being brushed under the carpet in Ireland. You are being the times. The gay parade through Dublin is much more colourful and non controversial than the one through Belfast. They don't have the flat earthers of the unionist DUP/FPC howling at the moon as they march past.

(It is Ireland after all) And theres a welcome on the mat.

When Muslims were a tiny portion of the population of Holland or London or Birmingham or Paris they were quite lovely too. Once there was a critical mass in the numbers, then things changed overnight. I'm sure Dublin will be an entirely different story.

should read 'behind', not 'being'.

All fine and dandy, ABC and JG, but here's what The Irish Savant (Hmmm, is there such a beast as an Irish savant? LOL) blogged about it this very day:

Why do they do it?

Our leaders and opinion-makers may not have heard of this from the Islamic Council of Europe in 1980 "Do not integrate. Rather, concentrate Muslim presence in a particular area until you are a majority in that area, so that the institutions of the local community come to reflect Islamic structures. The education system will be Islamic, the shops will serve only halal food, there will be no advertisements showing naked or semi-naked women and so on”

Or heard of this from President Boumedienne of Algeria in 1974 ‘Soon we shall irrupt into the Northern hemisphere. And not as friends. We shall conquer by populating your territory with our children. The wombs of our women will give us victory’.

We know that our leaders are so dumb and blind to the obvious that in any responsible society they wouldn’t be allowed to breed. However, even they can't have failed to see the results of their policies. Rapidly rising Muslim populations everywhere, sharply higher reproduction rates to the extent that many European cities will have Muslim majorities within 30 years. They can't have failed to see that when a critical mass of Muslims is achieved, the very things ordered by the Islamic Council of Europe in 1980 come to pass. They surely can't have succeeded in missing the fact that we’re being subverted from within.

Yet when the Central Statistics Office announces a 70% growth rate in the Muslim population over the last four years, the only reaction was in the form of tremulous bleats of joy. The blind, deaf and brain-dead who tend our moral micro-climate have not allowed themselves to see.

Question: Why do they do it? Why do they allow our country (and Continent) destroyed?

I can only assume that they have never heard of, or grasped in even the most tangential way, the wisdom of Edmund Burke ‘concrete human experience should serve as a more valued guide than theories, predictions, or valued hopes’.

Anyone have any hope for the future?

Phantom,

I don't suppose the destruction of Palestine and Iraq made them a little angry.

Yeah. They've been a little angry since the bung-hole philosopher came out with his wee hate-book back in the year 600 whatever. The troublemakers in Europe (and Indonesia, Philippines, India, ) are not Palestinians, and the problem has nothing to do with either Israel, or Iraq. The latter only started fifteen minutes ago in historical terms, and the angry people were very very angry well before then. They'll always be angry.

Why do you think they'll always be angry?

That's what i meant ABC. And re the other issues, I'm sure they will breathe new life into terrorist blood. No wonder they are welcome.

Guffaw. I'm sorry Dawkins, but I checked out your link. *cough* Did you see the guy you are quoting from??

Holy Mary mother of God!!

I will try to read the site linked with one eye closed.

''I'm sure they will breathe new life into terrorist blood.''

Now you're being ridiculous. Do you mean muslims breathing new life in to Irish terrorism. Totally laughable.

"Holy Mary mother of God!!"

one of my favorites! ;)

If adherants to a faith have been largely angry and belligerant and intolerant and overbearing for about 1200 years, they're likely to continue to be angry and arrogant for the next 1200 years. Trust me on this one. Christianity is a spent force, and Europe is ripe for the picking here. You will not know what hit you.

I asked why, Phantom.

I'm sure they will breathe new life into terrorist blood

John, that says a lot about you.

Phantom,

Have you been looking into your crystal ball. Christianity is a spent force? You're listening to too much David Vance and his view of a post christian society. Reading too many right wing books demonising a religion because they fear it. A life lived in fear is a life lost.

Do not get mixed up in Political islam which wants a caliphate and muslim domination with ordinary peace loving muslims who want nothing more than to live a holy exsistence in this world.

ABC,

It's all black and white around these parts, good and evil, us and them etc.

Complete tosh, as we know, but there you go.

I'm studiously avoiding work at the moment, that's what has me here! It's also my excuse for being in front of my pc on a Saturday nigtht. :)

ABC,

The pic actually shows a German :0)

I came across him several times on the net. When he's clothed he wears a T-shirt that sez, "I Beat Anorexia".

Dawkins,

I read that site with one eye closed. That fat guy is obnoxious in physique and even more obnoxious in his political opinions.

The site is nothing more than racist rantings.

Thank God and his holy mother it's not you. The mental imagery.......staggering.

Muslim anger, among other things caused by the shock of contact with all modern societies. By the dominance of the non-Muslim world. By the complete and total lack of accomplishment by the Muslim world. By the failure of the rest of the world to accept the Muslim religion. By the hatred from their holy book, that inflames Muslims in all regions of the world.

The deep anger and intolerance that is at the root of Islam can be found in the pages of the Koran. Don't be asking me--read the Koran ( not some multiculti interpretation of it--read the real thing for the full effect ).

Yeah Dawkins, I didn't think much of it either and I couldn't figure why he had a picture of Mary Harney on his profile!

Well done, Phantom! :)

ABC

I don't need David Vance to tell me that Christianity is utterly spent. Look around. In Europe, it's toast. In America, not so much, but on the way.

''I don't need David Vance to tell me that Christianity is utterly spent''

Christianity is not spent. The christian church has come through much more difficult persecution than indifference. Christianity will survive and flourish. I still go to mass where there is standing room only on a Sunday.

You're right, ABC. These things tend to run in cycles and Christianity is a long, long way from being spent.

Dawkins: "I can only assume that they have never heard of, or grasped in even the most tangential way, the wisdom of Edmund Burke ‘concrete human experience should serve as a more valued guide than theories, predictions, or valued hopes’."

Worth repeating: ‘concrete human experience should serve as a more valued guide than theories, predictions, or valued hopes’.

ABC and JG: Vis-a-vis the influx of Muslims when they reach critical mass: why should Ireland be any different than The Netherlands, or for that matter the Paris banlieus??

And why shouldn't they reach critical mass? What is there to stop them?

JG,

"I couldn't figure why he had a picture of Mary Harney on his profile!"

Damn, you done stole my thunder! :0)

ABC: Where in Europe is Christianity "flourishing?"

"Christianity is not spent."

I hope that you are right, but I fear you are not. Indifference a far more enemy than persecution.

Nothing could kill the Church during the days of persecution. Now MTV and a company car do the job without a struggle.

The pedophilia scandals and the Catholic Church sped the process along immesaurably in Ireland and the USA.

And the Anglican/Episcopalian Church-what does that organization even stand for anyway, other than having a nice day?

The only remnant I see is the fundamentalist Protestants--the Baptists, etc.

But as for the rest--I see older women going to Church out of belief, and some younger families going to Church for the sake of tradition and for the kids, but I can't see that lasting much longer. So much has ebbed away.

In Europe, I see most of the Christian Church as a dead man walking. Speak to me in 40 years, and we'll see who's right.

The Phantom,

"Nothing could kill the Church during the days of persecution. Now MTV and a company car do the job without a struggle."

My my, how beautifully put, my man! Respect.

--These things tend to run in cycle--

No they do not. The Jews and Christians of the Middle East were thrown out, exterminated, or converted, often at the sword. There are hardly any Jews left in the Arab World, and Christianity is in precipitous decline, Egypt included.

When will this 1200 year old cycle be reversed?

Lets sort this out. I see two things going on here. One is 'critical mass', that is an immigration issue. What is to stop them, here we have a discussion going on about open borders. We are in the EU, that won't be reversed. People are going to come into Ireland as they did in Britain, or anywhere else in Europe. It's about free movement, free market and the rest.

Phantom (I believe) is discussing a religious war.I don't see why the two should be discussed as though they were a single issue because they are not.

What really surprises me is that the biggest condemnation of immigrants is coming from America, a nation built on it. To couch it in religious terms is a fudge.

Phantom, i think you've exaggeratted the death of the Church in America, at least down south here. Our cathedral in Dallas has average Sunday attendence of 14,000, second only to St Pat's. Mostly Hispanic, but good Catholics.

ABS, condemnation of illegal immigrants.

No its not a fudge. You may not have declared on them, but they've declared war on you.

And I know of no figure in US public life who is opposed to immigration. Which is not the same as "illegal immigration"

A common and dishonest tactic here is to call those who oppose illegal immigration as being "anti-immigrant"

What part of Europe is Pakistan or Saudi Arabia in? Free movement within Europe is one thing, but what possible advantage is there to Europeans to having people from such places immigrate into their countries?

Lets sort out your beef first Phantom. Is your beef with illegals, or with the Koranic faith?

I have a very major beef with Islam. Its entirely inconsistent with Western values. Look around.

Phantom,

How many times has Jerusalem changed hands? What about the Crusades? 1200 year old cycle? I don't think so.

I'm just back from the Middle East where I spoke to many Christians who, funnily enough, had an excellent relationship with their Muslim neighbors. Despite being a minority, they said they felt included.

In fact, the main reason Christians are leaving towns like Bethlehem, Beit Jala and Beit Sahour is Israeli terror, not their Muslims neighbors whom they consider their brothers and sisters, despite what a lot of people might like to think.

Phantom it appears to me that you may have read the Koran, and misinterpeted it. Do you know what sufism is? Is it hate filled, no it is not.

You are looking at this through a lens promoted on this site, a right wing jaundiced eye of all things Koranic. David Vance is not someone I'd look to on religious matters, nor many who share his view of religion who are on this site.

WWhat possible traits of Christianity is there in someone calling for killing and bombing. It is hardly indicative of the inner peace of a true christian.

The Crusades, like Muslim Spain, are the canards that are always raised.

The Crusades were military campaigns that were a reaction to the Muslim military conquests.

As in Spain, the reconquesta of the Christians was the right and proper response to the conquesta from down south.

The "Christian Palestinians" will continue to have excellent relations with Muslims until a couple of generations, when the last one will be dead or converted. Its all very excellent. And the Christian numbers will continue to go down in every Arab land. Can't blame all of it on the Israelis.