Monday
26Nov2007
MOHAMMAD THE BEAR
Monday, November 26, 2007 at 01:00PM
I see that a British teacher has been arrested in Sudan for letting her seven-year-old students name a teddy bear Mohammed, the British Embassy has said! Gillian Gibbons, 54, from Liverpool, was detained yesterday on suspicion of insulting the Muslim prophet. I suppose this was hurtful - to teddy bear lovers everywhere.
in Islam
Islam 
View Printer Friendly Version
Reader Comments (95)
Ms Gibbons' punishment could be up to six months in jail, 40 lashes or a fine.
And fellow teachers at Khartoum's Unity High School told Reuters news agency they feared for Ms Gibbons' safety after receiving reports that men had started gathering outside the police station where she was being held.
This has the makings of another cartoons row. I'm sure that Rage Boy will soon be on the case.
Do we know if the Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams has anything to say about these jolly little people. I wonder if he has any teddy bears called after him.
Yet another example of people being allowed to take the supernatural much too seriously. Can these people not get themselves a life?
If she had named the bear 'Captain Kirk', would we have expected a violent outburst from the Star Trek appreciation society? Lest we forget, the only difference between the nonsense of Islam and the nonsense of Star Trek is that Trekkies tend to be more realistic.
HA
Well said.
It's nothing to do with the supernatural. It's to do with the psychosis that underlines Islam.
Trekkies tend to be more realistic.
Yeeeah. Bless. Unlike Star Wars sci-fi fans some 70 000 of whom have (seriously) declared that they are followers of the Jedi faith.
"declared that they are followers of the Jedi faith." And why not - can't be anymore devoid of reality than the 'you will be punished' for insulting a teddy bear or whatever.
We jest but that poor woman in the Sudan is in serious trouble!
Surely as a resident of Sudan, she could have beem a bit more cogniscent of the local customs and sensitivities. Most visiors to that country are warned of instances such as this happening.
Was she really trying to make a point, or just being mischievious? - I can hardly believe she didn't realise the furore, and the consequence of her actions.
I know most of our immigrants don't do it, but she could have taught the pupils a valuable lesson along the lines of 'When in Rome, etc.etc'.
Still, 'if she wants to play silly buggers, then she will have to pay'. I hope those lashes don't leave too big a scar...
David -- Islam, Christianity, Hinduism etc etc are based entirely on the supernatural -- that's why they're referred to as religious beliefs.
Many Muslims take their supernatural beliefs extremely seriously, as in this case, and let's face it, if Mohammed really was a premier division prophet with a hotline to the big guy, they have every justification in defending him. After all, a few hundred years ago you could have been burnt at the stake in merry England for disagreeing with a minor point of church doctrine, never mind insulting one of the top men. So our 'psychosis' as you put it, may be currently dormant, but it sprang from the same plant, ie Abrahamic religion, that Islam appeared from.
The underlying problem is the respect demanded by religionists for their chosen delusion. The Jedi example put forward by Alison is a good one. I would further suggest Scientology, an extremely recent 'faith', but no more or less nonsensical than it's ancient cousins.
In 2007, the last thing we need to be doing is conferring some sort of respectability on what are after all little more than mysogynistic control systems. And 'respecting' such patent nonsenses as religious leaders, religious symbols and religious sensitivities, from whatever quarter, is at the root of the problem.
The ultimate irony in the possible future demise of humanity is that it may be brought about through a clash of delusions. Most intelligent creature eh?
EY
Have you actually read the story?
Maggie:-
Controversial Bangladeshi feminist writer Taslima Nasreen has been flown out of the Indian city of Calcutta after violent protests by Muslims...Critics say she called for the Koran to be changed to give women greater rights, something she denies. Rioters blocked roads and set cars alight. At least 43 people were hurt. More than 100 arrests were made. Good eh.
''Still, 'if she wants to play silly buggers, then she will have to pay'. I hope those lashes don't leave too big a scar...''
Firm but fair Ey, and I trust you'll be recommending that all Muslims domiciled in the UK will be respecting our secularist tradition by not wearing their religious garb in public and accepting that no more mosques should be built until Christian churches are accepted in every Muslim country.
HA,
I did say that I was aware that most of our immigrants didn't do it, i.e. follow local customs, but as we are alwys being told, - we should set the example...and we have people here in postions of power, who are sympathetic to the immigrants, which I am sure is not the case in the Sudan...but then, we aren't quite so thin skinned as them either.
Human Animals - your name implies a bias towards Teddy Bears, but we'll put that aside.
There are places on this earth goverened by strict secular rules where one is also in danger of expressing religious belief. Religion itself, contrary to the musings of its more agreesive critics, is not alone in breeding intolerance. A balance needs to be achieved in accepting the beliefs of others so long as they don't intrude on the rights of all. That would allow for believers and nonbelievers to co-exist.
Alison,
Yes I did, - what did I miss? -- that it was the pupils who named the bear? and she didn't see the potential for trouble in accepting that name?... as is often said, ignorance of the law, (or local traditions), are no excuse...
EY
I don't understand how you conclude that she was trying to make a point or just being mischievious and therefore deserves a lashing (which you hope doesnt hurt too much)?
Mahons,
You say that:
There are places on this earth governed by strict secular rules
on this tread and
People have confused the issue of outrageous speech with free speech.
on the Irving/Griffin thread.
Are you being purposely obscure today? What places? Which people?
Alison: Perhaps he means that like someone singing "I'm in The Money" as they skip through Central Park at 3:00 am this teacher was not deserving of the danger that resulted, but was at the very least not overly cautious given known dangers.
Should a teacher face any punishment for naming a Teddy Bear Mohammed, of Budda or Jesus, of course not.
Ey -- 'setting an example' in supposed religious tolerance is not a sensible thing to do, particularly when faced with such a dictatorial control system as Islam.
The exclusivity and intolerance of such 'faiths' engender a 'them and us' attitude, which is not only impervious to such concepts as democracy and religious freedom, but regards such tolerance as a form of weakness.
What is needed (and long past due) is a widespread healthy scepticism for organised religion of all hues, along the lines of that meted out to sporting bodies such as football teams.
Religious belief, if absolutely necessary, is best kept as a commune between the individual and the chosen deity. Once organised into a nonsensical forum of supposed right and wrong ways to worship, it transforms from a comfort blanket into a potentially psychopathic tribal system.
The pomposity of organised religion needs to be pricked and we in the west are as guilty as any of respecting the sort of twaddle that allows bachelors in frocks to dictate sexual practices and tolerates downcast women on our streets dressed in sacks.
If we are to 'set an example', it must be a secularist one and not an 'all nutters welcome here' stance.
Mahons
There is definitely someone being mischievous in this issue and it would appear to be someone else at the school.
The incident happened a few months ago, noone complained at the time even when the kids had taken books home - until suddenly one other teacher at the school decided to stir things up a bit.
Could it not have been 'put right' locally and sensibly eg within the school? Another teacher decides to publicly whistle blow and the young woman concerned is now deserving of the punishment?
Alan: I don't think I could keep China "obscure" given the size of its population, but I have asked everyone to remain very quiet for the duration of this thread, so perhaps I will get away with it.
On the other thread, if you need a clarification, please go back to that thread so we don't have, as Bill Clinton might say "unfortuante spillover".
Alison, Mahons, HA,
Of course, you all have a point, but surely anyone with a hint of intelligence would not intentionally or unintentionally, make the basic error that this teacher made. Dosen't she value her own safety?
Of course I don't really think she deserves a lashing, for calling a toy some name, but she sure does deserves something for being so thoughtless, (that's being polite for stupid)...
Alison: All I know is that where I to find myself a teacher in the same place I already possess the knowledge that the use of the name Mohammed when applied to a stuffed animal would result in eventual discomfort if not beheading.
It ain't the Harper Valley PTA and mini-skirts after all.
'A balance needs to be achieved in accepting the beliefs of others so long as they don't intrude on the rights of all. That would allow for believers and nonbelievers to co-exist.'
I would entirely agree Mahons. Unfortunately the UK appears to be struggling with this concept.
One recent example is the Muslim supermarket checkout operators who refuse to handle alcohol. The solution is simple -- get a job somewhere else which doesn't involve alcohol handling. Instead, said supermarket are allowing said operators to opt out of scanning such items by calling another member of staff over.
If this isn't pandering to religious based nonsense I don't know what is.
Incidentally, the teddy bear is not in fact an animal, whereas Mohammed was.
EY
She wasnt thoughtless. She asked the kids to give the toy a name - after their own names - they then voted on their favourite -
I get the cartoon controversy as someone drew an image of "the prophet". But please explain to me (and the teacher presumably!) how using a childs name in this instance is "blasphemy" and why the parents of the kids named Mohammed arent also held up on blasphemy charges?
Added to which why wasnt the incident settle months ago quietly and without causing what is now likley to be riots
The only thing she was stupid on was actually bothering to go to Africa and believe that the adults there have any brains.
Alison,
The same petty behaviour happens here, and we don't have the monopoly on jealousy, spite, or whatever the reason for the snitch. I am sure she will be thrilled to be called a 'young woman' - at 54 - I don't think so - she should have know better...
Ey: 'Of course I don't really think she deserves a lashing, for calling a toy some name, but she sure does deserves something for being so thoughtless, (that's being polite for stupid)...'
Ey whilst 'insulting the prophet' may well sound like a line best uttered by a witch-doctor stumbling out of the Amazonian jungle for the first time, we do reluctantly have to accept that some people really do take this stuff seriously.
I would therefore concur that this lady deserves something -- I would suggest deportation.
Alison,
Don't most folk know that muslims don't call inanimate objects after Mohammed? - it's ok for their kids, but don't call your camel, dog, or whatever by that name - it's disrespectful - dontcha know?
Given that she has lived there for some time, I would have thought she would have known better. But then as you say if she is so stupid as to go there in the first place - what cabn we expect?
Alison posted:
The incident happened a few months ago, noone complained at the time even when the kids had taken books home - until suddenly one other teacher at the school decided to stir things up a bit.
This is exactly what happened with the cartoons. A minor fuss in Denmark was reactivated months later by head-banging mullahs who travelled to Egypt in order to get world-wide riots going. And how they succeeded!
Just as a side-note, does anyone here recall the huge outcry from the Muslim community when it was discovered that a man responsible for the deaths of up to 3000 innocent people was named after the prophet himself? No I thought not.
But then how could you possibly compare the ringleader of a terrorist plot who personally flew a plane into the world trade center to a woman naming a teddy bear?
Islam -- convert today.
I think mohammad is a nice name for a dog. What would happen if I got a puppy and called it mohammad?
And why did the Telegraph write "the Prophet Muhammad"? That murderous, paedophile is the muslim prophet, and nobody else's: that's why the muslims behave as they do.
Yes the 'woman' is daft to have gone there in the first place and I think deportation is an excellent solution...perhaps we can deport all the nutters in the supermarkets...the ones who refuse to handle alcohol and the ones who let them get away with it.
I wonder how this will all pan out in the years ahead when people slowly begin to wonder ...is there any deity out there or will our carbon footprints erode any hope of finding out?
None of this stuff will matter a jot Maggie.
Having 'created' the vast infinities of the universe, obviously 'God' would indeed be obsessed with the minutiae of human existence. Or would he?
Could it perhaps be that humanity has somewhat overstated it's case in the grand scheme of things? Is a parasitical species one step from a chimpanzee really the son of the creator? Will humanity's 'carbon footprint' render it completely habitatless in the next few hundred years? And will the universe or anything else in it even notice?
These are the big questions and none of them involve teddy bears.
Boulos the local spokesman from the British Embassy in Khartoum said 'the toy wasnt labelled or marked up in any way'
Right, so if he doesnt know the local blasphemy issues then what hope does someone who arrived there in August -
but yeah lets hope they give her and the 7 year old also being questioned a damn good thrashing - that'll knock some sense in to 'em for not getting all those fine nuances. The kids will certainly learn a lesson about voting to boot.
Yup.
Islam -- We Make it Up as We Go Along
Alison: I for one don't wish any harm to fall on this person. But she might as well have passed around a bottle of wine and then plead ignorance.
Nonsense
Alison,
Quote from the link:
"Head of the attorney offices Mutusim Abdallah told (SMC) that legal arrangements are under way to issue warrant of arrest against the suspect upon a complaint presented by the ministry of education.
"Abdallah said the suspect teacher printed the name of Prophet Mohammed PBUH on a doll in a shape of bear.
"Then she wrote letters to student guardians telling them that they should receive a doll on which the name Mohammed is printed"
From your post:
"Boulos the local spokesman from the British Embassy in Khartoum said 'the toy wasnt labelled or marked up in any way'
Now who are we to believe? The Embassy guy doesn't seem too reliable now, does he?...
Alison,
Fine nuances are not the same as a commonsense and practicality...as for the vote - if they learn that voting has consequences, then all will not be in vain..
LOL.
The nuances of this case are being compared to someone drinking alcohol and now we have someone suggesting we believe the attorney pressing charges. Next up we will have ATW commenters suggesting the Saudi judge is telling the truth in the ongoing rape case.
This is what Islam does to people.
Alison: A teacher here appears to have failed to recognize that Muslims have a dismaying lack of tolerance when it comes to the use of Mohammed's name. Did she not read the Fodor's Guide before traveling to that particular destination?
EY
Your quote comes a news item on the Sudanese Media Centre website - closely associated with the Sudanese government
Robert Boulos is the school's director as it turns out. He said the teacher had made an innocent mistake.
"We have lost one of our best teachers. She was maybe a little naive but she really had no idea what she was doing."
The teddy bear had been brought to school by one of Miss Gibbon's six and seven-year-old pupils as part of a project.
They were asked to take the bear home each weekend and keep a diary of his activities.
The class voted on a name and settled on Mohamed - also the name of one of the most popular pupils.
"No parents or teachers complained because they knew she had no bad intentions," said Mr Boulos.
"She has done nothing wrong but now we are very concerned that there's a risk to the school and the students from the men in the street."
He added that the problem only came to light last week after parents complained to the ministry of education.
The school would stay closed until January, he said.
Miss Gibbons faces six months in prison, a fine or 40 lashes if convicted of insulting the Prophet Mohamed.
Unity is one of a number of British schools in Khartoum that cater for the children of well-heeled Sudanese professionals or ex-pat oil and aid workers. Ms G arrived in August.
Police officers guarded the entrance to the Christian school yesterday.
Most parents arriving at the gates were supportive of the British teacher.
One mother, whose seven-year-old son had hosted the bear for a weekend, said her family had not been offended by the name.
A spokesman for the British embassy said consular staff were aware of the matter and were trying to visit Miss Gibbons, who has two grown up children, in her cell.
He said: "We can confirm a British national was arrested by police in Sudan on Sunday. We are providing consular assistance.
"The children chose the name because it is very common here. This happened in September and the parents did not have a problem with it.
"We are in contact with the authorities here and they have visited the teacher and she is in a good condition."
A source close to the school said one teacher at the school had been angered by the naming of the teddy bear and complained to the headmistress.
The source, who did not want to be named, said: "The story, unconfirmed, is that **one of the teachers has a grudge with the headmistress and wants to move this whole case**.
"According to what I was told, she was kicked out from the principal's office and belongs to one of the established conservative families in Khartoum."
I do think the British embassy has the credibility here. And even if the teacher did do something like wearing an "I love Texas" tee shirt in NYC, there should be no punishment.
Somebody loves Texas? Are you sure Charles?
Charles: Surely wearing an "I Love Texas" tee shirt in public is punishment enough.
Hold on HA, I'm gonna go outside and kiss the groung in yer honor. ;)
Hold on Mahons, I'm gonna bend over and... oh, never mind! ;)
Charles: You sound sheepish.