Tuesday
07Oct2008
MOTHER'S PRIDE?
Tuesday, October 7, 2008 at 08:05AM I see that the mother of IRA/Sinn Fein leader Martin McGuinness has died. She was 84.
DUP leader Peter Robinson has paid tribute to Mr McGuinness's closeness to his mother.
I wonder was she proud of the actions of her terrorist son?I think of all those many families in Northern Ireland that lost fathers and mothers at the hands of the IRA commanded by McGuinness and his pals. Their sorrowing was imposed on them by these callous cowards, their loved ones lives were cut tragically short. Surely the greater shame here is that Mrs McGuinness ever gave birth to the monster that now grieves for her and who preens as Deputy First Minister?
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Reader Comments (39)
no the shame is that she raised her son with the belief system that you can sway the majority of people if you kill enough of them and you do it randomly so that innocent woman and children will die.
A loving Mum
This deluge of condolences on various websites makes me sick.
The only reason such a death is newsworthy is because of the 'fame' of her pathogenic hellspawn. Why the 'fame'? Because he dedicated his life to running a terrorist organisation that killed and maimed thousands of innocent people.
She knew what he was and what his role was. Yet she was described as a 'passionate republican' (well, that's one less anyway).
In the next life you don't pay for giving birth to a monster: that's just fate. You do pay, however, for nurturing and turning a blind eye to the actions of one.
Hope the heat isn't too uncomfortable, Peg!!
What a disgusting outpouring of bigotry. There is something seriously wrong with people who can write filth like that about someone who has just died.
It is with regret that the Mother died and not the murdering son Martin. Perhaps he'll top himself just like his scumbag colleague Charlie McHugh the Sinn Fein / IRA Councillor in Strabane, did last Friday. Found hanging from a rope. I wonder did his conscience get the better of him, considering his part in the murder of twenty-four members of the UDR and RUC who lie in Castlederg graveyards; murders for whom no one has ever been convicted.
It should also be noted, that the late Peggy supported her murdering son in all he did.
'What a disgusting outpouring of bigotry. There is something seriously wrong with people who can write filth like that about someone who has just died.'
But nowhere near as seriously wrong as devoting a life to terrorism, holding the deaths of thousands on your so-called 'conscience', and setting up a political front to lure like-minded scumbags into supporting your methods and aims, eh Henry.
At least the murdering Martin will know where she is burried.
Should we tot up the figures the British have murdered in Ireland over the past 800 years.
'Should we tot up the figures the British have murdered in Ireland over the past 800 years.'
OR
Should we tot up the thousands of Protestants massacred by Irish Catholics down the centuries?
Both are irrelevant.
1. McGuinness is a monster;
2. She created a monster;
3. She presided over the actions of a monster.
For the first point he'll be answerable in the next life. For the third point she'll be answerable in the next life.
As Dave Allen once said, during a sketch where he was wondering in a graveyard reading the headstones, 'where are all the bastards?'
Andrew,
Point 1 may be correct.
Point 2 the unionist system helped create the monster not his mother.
Point 3 is just incorrect.
"no the shame is that she raised her son with the belief system that you can sway the majority of people if you kill enough of them and you do it randomly so that innocent woman and children will die."
I imagine we will hear a similar tirade of evil abuse from the likes of you Troll when Barbara Bush dies?
"well, that's one less anyway ... Hope the heat isn't too uncomfortable, Peg"
You are an evil bastard Andrew.
"In the next life you don't pay for giving birth to a monster: that's just fate. You do pay, however, for nurturing and turning a blind eye to the actions of one."
I take it then your own mother might just taste the flames then Andy?
"I wonder did his conscience get the better of him, considering his part in the murder of twenty-four members of the UDR and RUC who lie in Castlederg graveyards"
Members of the UDR and the RUC were members of the British Security Forces and were thus legitimate targets. I wonder did the British soldiers involved in the World Wars get the better of them for all the Germans they killed?
"But nowhere near as seriously wrong as devoting a life to terrorism, holding the deaths of thousands on your so-called 'conscience', and setting up a political front to lure like-minded scumbags into supporting your methods and aims, eh Henry."
One man's Terrorist is another man's freedom fighter, Andrew. Insulting the memory of the dead is the lowest of the low Andrew.
"Should we tot up the thousands of Protestants massacred by Irish Catholics down the centuries?"
Insignificant next to the number killed by the British in Ireland.
The tirade of abuse towards the dead in this thread is appauling. I expect it from the likes of Andrew and Troll, but for David to even start the thread just surprises me.
There is enough legitimate criticism of Martin McGuiness without having to drag his mother into it.
Seamus,
I thought about it before I wrote it, believe it or not. What motivated me was not so much a desire to lessen the grief of the McGuinness family, after all grief is grief. It was the thought of all those families who lost Mums and Dads because of Mr McGuinness. Maybe I made my point in a clumsy way but hope you see what I was trying to do.
Todd, what a pointless whiney little Mope you are. Is that your answer to everything, a one sided, out of context, self centred view of world history. Pitiful!
"I thought about it before I wrote it, believe it or not. What motivated me was not so much a desire to lessen the grief of the McGuinness family, after all grief is grief. It was the thought of all those families who lost Mums and Dads because of Mr McGuinness. Maybe I made my point in a clumsy way but hope you see what I was trying to do."
Fair enough and while I don't belief that you started the thread to allow Andrew and Troll to have their soapbox, I just think that we shouldn't use anyones death to make a point, even a valid one and even if it is a point about someone who was involved in a large amounts of killings.
"Todd, what a pointless whiney little Mope you are. Is that your answer to everything, a one sided, out of context, self centred view of world history. Pitiful!"
Answer me this NRG. Would the Troubles have happened if the actions of the Unionist establishment between 1921 and 1969 didn't occur? Here is an even easier one, and ties into a Television program last night, would the trouble have happened the actions of the Unionist establishment between 1968 and 1969 didn't occur?
" I just think that we shouldn't use anyones death to make a point, even a valid one and even if it is a point about someone who was involved in a large amounts of killings."
The IRA killed to make a point.
You yourself are making a point.
Yeah its entirely too bad his mother taught him that its better to die on your feet than live on your knees
I suppose from an onionist point of view its really too bad he was better at living than dying
As for Andrew its really to bad his owner shaved the pet monkey and taught it to type
It's all slipping away NRG, Isn't it!
Disgusting thread. I agree with Seamus, don't know what the point of putting up a thread like this was, if it wasn't to throw stones at the dead...
Totally disgusting.
The POINT of the thread, for the slow of thinking, was to highlight that many Mothers and Fathers lie in the ground care of the organisation that Mrs McGuinness's son was so proud to belong too. She should have been ashamed of what he has done. She wasn't. I leave that for others to judge. Can't Irish nationalists see beyond their mopery? (Rhetorical)
She should have been ashamed of what he has done. She wasn't.
Are parents to be responsible for the actions of their adult children. How about Mr Savage does he still love his son?? Jailed for 8 months for wife beating, is his dad ashamed of him? Will he stop speaking to him, of course not. How do you know the old woman even knew what he was up to at the time? How do you know what she felt. My word, the old woman is dead, if you'd nothing good to say then why not just let her rest in peace?
Mopery is the breaking of a silly law, do you mean emotion, should humans do away with emotion. Do you not feel emotion? How would you feel if some blogged about a death or tragedy of someone you loved?
It's beyond decency.
David,
I question your motives for putting this blog up. You had to know what this would turn into.
We know nothing about what was in the heart of this woman, really.
We have all had members of our families pass away, and it is painful. If we can't let the dead rest then we have lost all decency.
Shame on you David.
Seamus
You should know by now that personal insults mean absolutely nothing.
Especially when they come from someone who thinks that serving the state makes them 'legitimate targets' for an evil terrorist and his band of not-so-merry men.
She was the creator of a TRULY evil bastard; turned a blind eye to his evil; and will have to answer for that in the next life, notwithstanding the dewy-eyed mourning and the deliberate misrepresentation of history we have from the likes of dear Seamus.
In fact, in more blunt terms, the turning of a blind eye to such a monster makes her an foul, evil bitch.
Support for such a man from you, whilst talking of those in the security forces in such flippant terms, makes you just sick, not evil. However, both are incurable burdens.
I often wonder what it must be like to mother or father of a hideous human being, a monster, like a serial rapist, or that Austrian man who raped his daughter, or the boys who killed Jamie Bulger, or the July 7th terrorists. It must be either utterly debilitating and humbling or a time when you refuse to see the wrong and chalk it all up as for some kind of misguided greater good or special purpose.
It is awful that the mothers of those who suffered for his mental condition will never know such gushing tributes.
Alison
It depends. To be the mother of someone like Robert Thompson (one of the murderers of Jamie Bulger) who went on the record to condemn her son, must have been harrowing.
To be the mother of a someone like McGuinness (who was directly and indirectly responsible for many more murders than one little boy) and support him, is something else entirely.
You see, unlike the 'green' plebs on here, I believe someone doesn't stop being a bastard just because they snuff it. It is a point I hope is recognised by anyone who eulogises at Seamus's funeral far into the future.
Typical unionist/british hypocrisy.
'Typical unionist/british hypocrisy.'
I think you need to look at what both David and I wrote about the death of David Ervine in order to put your whining firmly where it belongs: in the bullshit section.
Ahh, Andrew, i care not a jot what you wrote about Mr Ervine, its your refusal to condemn British crown forces actions and British government policy in Ireland which shows you up for what you are. And im not just talking about the most recent incarnation of the conflict.
The post is worded to strongly given the subject,
My sympathy to the McGuinnesses and to Martian along with them.
I was struck by the comment of one Henry94,
"What a disgusting outpouring of bigotry. There is something seriously wrong with people who can write filth like that about someone who has just died."
The grief of losing someone in their autumn years from natural causes must be very great, and I agree it calls for sensitivity and respect regardless of the bereaved, but consider that when this woman's sons' comrades blew up little children on the Celtic Mist 2, their anonymous statement was that they did it to "rip out your imperialist hearts".
Children were murdered for no other reason than to cause grief, and the comrades of Martian McGuinness though this a good subject for a wee gloat. The bitterness engendered does not require mental defect or bigotry to empathise with. Indeed, there is something wrong with anyone who considers these guys fit for anything but the gallows, and those who endorse them by voice, pen or ballot have but little entitlement to accuse anyone of peddling filth or of a lack of proper humanity.
I hope Martian can reflect on how much less the grief he feels today is than the grief he caused to so many, I hope he can experience some of the terror and regret he so richly deserves at the thought of the such suffering, now he has felt just a small part of it himself.
Andrew, yeah I mostly agree
Excellent comment Cromwell H.
It seems others are also unwilling to admit it as well.
I wonder if McGuiness will spare a thought for the mother of Frank Hegarty?
Seamus, go and check a calender and have a think about joining the rest of us in the 21st century. One day you republicans will take responsibility for your own actions rather than talways pointing into the past, blaming someone else, assuming that you are the only people in the world who have ever had a hard time or rewriting history.
By your logic it would be understandable if I killed a load of priests in Rome because of the slaughter of Protestants by the RC establishment down the years, and you would you approve of all those Irish people in the USA be slaughtered by the native Americans.
Iam reminded of something Jimmy Carters mother said after another incident involving her son the President or his hapless brother Billy "Sometimes i think ,Lilian you should have stayed a virgin!"
Given your own views Andy pandy its really too bad what youve done to your mother
Subjecting her to the fires of hell just for spawning something such as you
"One day you republicans will take responsibility for your own actions rather than talways pointing into the past, blaming someone else, assuming that you are the only people in the world who have ever had a hard time or rewriting history."
I see that you failed to answer my question. An action causes a reaction. The Unionist establishment's actions caused the IRA's reaction. Do you beleive the Troubles would have happened if not for the actions of the Unionist establishment between 1968 and 1969 didn't occur?
"By your logic it would be understandable if I killed a load of priests in Rome because of the slaughter of Protestants by the RC establishment down the years, and you would you approve of all those Irish people in the USA be slaughtered by the native Americans."
The murder of innocent civilians is never to be allowed. I apply this accross the board NRG, regardless of political loyalty. I condemn the IRA for killing innocent civilians. Can you, or Andrew, or David, or Alison condemn the British for the innocents slaughtered?
But if the Catholic Church were still murdering Protestants then a reaction would be expected. If the Catholic Church were in power and treating Protestants like second class citizens in their own country then I would imagine a reaction would be expected.
If Irish Americans, or any Americans for that matter, treated Native Americans as second class citizens then I would imagine a reaction would be expected.
'Given your own views Andy pandy its really too bad what youve done to your mother
Subjecting her to the fires of hell just for spawning something such as you.'
I work with disabled people who have severe challenging behaviour. Two weeks ago two clients of mine started fighting over a bowl of cornflakes at breakfast. It resulted in one of them biting part of the other one's ear off.
Not only did I have to wrestle the offender to the floor, I also had to grab the dismembered ear lobe and ice-bag it in a desperate attempt to get it, and the patient, to hospital.
The point of this story is that I face violence and intimidation on a daily scale. Do you honestly think I'm moved by the words of an insignificant little Fenian turd such as you?
'Do you beleive the Troubles would have happened if not for the actions of the Unionist establishment between 1968 and 1969 didn't occur?'
The Troubles would have started regardless as cyclical history between 1921 and 1969 proved. All due to the inability of republicans to accept that there are two distinct peoples on the island of Ireland with two distinct entitlements to the principle of self determination.
Under Seamus's logic the UDA were a just phenomenon, given that they were a reaction to violence and therefore......
"Law before Violence" - anyone ?
This cavalier approach of judging action by rhetoric is a staggering display of prejudice and inhumanity, do not judge actions by rhetoric, if you do every rapist who claims "she wanted it, the filthy beast!" is an ok guy and in the right, rhetoric must be judged by action, and if so done, we can clearly perceive that torturing to death an elderly couple in Lenadoon* as an incentive for others to move during the area clearances is not justified by 'I'm the victim' or romantic rhetoric.
*(It was mixed in the sxties, like Rathcoole, but you don't really here about it. For obvious reasons.)
"The Troubles would have started regardless as cyclical history between 1921 and 1969 proved. All due to the inability of republicans to accept that there are two distinct peoples on the island of Ireland with two distinct entitlements to the principle of self determination."
He right, indeed had the Unionist been the persecuting beasts you fancy they were, and which they must be for IRA rhetoric to hold, the "troubles" might not have started, nor would the IRA have been able to operate for 30 years. It was respect for the supremacy of law and the limitations of force that gave these cynical murderers room to move. This is Not to be regretted, though it proves where condemnation must fall; on those who used violence that was unjustified and unnecessary. Had it truly been 'S.S.R.U.C.', response and action would have been Very Different Indeed, and 'bloody Sunday - Ireland' would not have gained any real significance, as every day would have been a bloody day. A little bit like what it was like for the people who really were fighting a murder machine in Ireland.
Did you get the earlobe back on mate ? Nasty business that. The worst I ever heard was a hood' biting off a lad's nipple. yikes !