Name That Soon
Wednesday, December 6, 2006 at 11:50AM It's finally the start of the process leading to the day of reckoning for those of us who passionately believe that Northern Ireland's second largest settlement should retain its official title of Londonderry. Not so for some of the separatist plebs who, by stroke of historical bad luck, happen to live within its borders.
According to The Guardian, today the High Court in Belfast will launch a judicial enquiry to finally establish the 'true name' of the city. In truth there is nothing to establish. The name of the city has been legally Londonderry since the Royal Charter was bestowed upon it by King James I in 1613. Under British constitutional law it is impossible to revoke the terms of a Royal Charter (and a name change here would, I contend, involve a revocation, not an amendment) unless the territory concerned cecedes from the sovereignty of the UK Parliament. Some point to the fact that Kingstown and Queenstown in the Irish Republic changed to Dun Laoghaire and Cobh, respectively. What they fail to notice is that the Irish Republic is an independent sovereign entity and, moreover, these two examples were both towns and not cities. In the UK only a Royal Charter can establish city status.
Some might consider the perceived neutrality of the NIO as evidence that they are not prepared to defend the Constitutional protocol of the State for which they are employed. The truth is they have no need to get involved because the ruling will be an open and shut case. And, for republicans who will be demanding a new Royal Charter to replace the existing one, it is down to me to tell them it will be like urinating in the wind. Londonderry it officially is, and Londonderry it will officially remain.
UPDATE: Information on amendments to a Royal Charter are detailed here.
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Reader Comments (117)
Correct me if im wrong Andrew, but Dun Laoghaire changed its name back pre independence, ie under direct british rule, via a town council resolution and Cobh changed back under the Irish Free State and not the ROI. The free state was not an independent sovereign entity. It had to swear allegiance to the crown did it not.
Brings the whole farce over the name of dingle to mind. Its not like the next day you walk out the door and start using the new name.
>>Dun Laoghaire changed its name back pre independence, ie under direct british rule, via a town council resolution<<
True Kloot, but it was changed in 1921, just a few months before Independence, when D-L Council had a Sinn Fein majority. I don't know if the new name was recognised by the British during the rest of their stay.
Re. (London)Derry. Many Unionists, including the Apprentice Boys no less, use "Derry". Plebs, Andrew?
Maybe someone who knows can tell us what the legal situation is (Chris?)
I agree with Mr. Orange about the name.
Good point Cunningham.
>>Your english laird, in his english castle, has given his word on the subject. And his word is final.
<<
Get a good grip on that ladle, or its likely to fall in while your stirring that pot :)
Not so - ABOD call it Derry ;)
I'm not bothered if the city is called Londonderry or Derry - the County should only be called Londonderry IMO. I'd oblect if they wanted to name the city an Doire or BobbySandsVille
.
In fairness it would have cost a fortune to have those banners re done... :)
But most places in Northern Ireland, however strange they sound in English, are descriptive in their Irish rendering, e.g. Beal Feirste, Ard Mhacha, Tir Eoghain. But Londonderry? What is the *point* of having 'London' at the start?
Northern Irelanders will be proud to hear that their NI Secretary has just been named "Welsh Politician of the Year" by am.pm.!
Congratulations!
Hugh - like it or not, the London Company is a part of all our cultural heritage. Trying to wipe out all traces of anglo influence belongs in the late 19th century. Even in the Gaeltacht it's been decided to keep Dingle.
A pointless part, but there you have it. I see no reason to wipe it out, but its sheer pointlessness will baffle people for generations to come.
Shitlingthorpe - Yorkshire, UK
Bastard - Norway
Twatt - Orkney, UK
Muff - Northern Ireland
Turdo - Romania
Shag Island - Indian Ocean
Wet Beaver Creek - Australia
Tittybong - Australia
Blow Me Down - Newfoundland, Canada
Old Man's Head - Newfoundland, Canada
Big Ugly - West Virginia, USA
Piddle-in-the-Hole - England
Come by Chance - Newfoundland (there is one in Australia also)
Middle Wallop - England
It's good that you admit that the name Londonderry is pointless, as well as, as you rightly note, the majority of English names for towns and townlands in Ireland. This is somewhat different to the situation in Britain, where place names like Stratford upon Avon, Cambridge and Aberystwyth actually say something about their location.
"Horse and Jockey" - Tipperary, Ireland
I demand it be renamed.
if the republicans hate english heritage so much we should really get the wrecking balls out and head for dublin, its not so much english materials they hate or even english names, its protestant heritage and protestant inclusion in the fabric of society and postive history that ticks them off.
Normally they do yes they usually denote saxon norman etc ( ham on the end denotes a saxon village doesnt it? etc etc).
Right. So 'Muff'. Umm.
Never been to Ireland. Or Northern Ireland for that matter. Judging from the way these threads kick off sometimes its still a scary place!
I'll have you know Ireland has taken in well over a hundred thousand refugees from Britain in the last decade, fleeing the dreaded Labour tyranny.
They are integrating well.
Alison,
easy mistake, it's northern Ireland (note small n) and in Ulster but was sacrificed on the unionist altar of making sure there was a secure unionist majority. Hence it was jettisoned and is today in the Republic.
There's a place called Wankie in Zimbabwe.
But the classic is still Phucket.
on what exactly Garfield ?
i'm sorry, but I fail to see why my point on the actual aggravating factor behind cultural intolerance has any relevance to English migration to the south, (most of the people I know who went are third / second generation Irish).
"They are integrating well" and why wouldn't they? its a much better place to live than the yardie dumps I have to tramp through every night. I'm sure they will feel right at home what with Lyons tea, cork gin and a virtually identical ethical code and way of life.......
what has this got to do with removing protestant cultural heritage ?
and if you hate the word London, why don't you curl up in horror at the presence of large scale (and magnificent) Georgian architecture ? the crucial difference is continuing empowered protestant inclusion.
For someone who pretends to be well versed on Constitutional law I do find it ironic that you believe the High Court has the power to "launch a judicial enquiry"
Derry City Council is bringing a Judicial Review and a Judge is being asked to rule on it.
There is a big differnce between a Judicial Review and the High Court having the power to lauch an enquiry.
I would stick to the social care if I was you!
The removal of the epithet "London" has nothing to do with attacking "Protestant heritage". That is a silly comment.
It's about reverting to the original placename (albeit an anglicised version thereof) and removing the outdated trappings of colonialism.
As for the county, it was never called Co. Derry officially (although that is what most Irish people call it) so (in the name of cross-community inclusion/PC bullshit) maybe it should also revert to its original name of Co. Coleraine?
thanks for confirming my argument there reg.
That's funnier than you intended Reg me old China.
For the sake of us humo[u]r deprived Yanks, what's the joke?
There are more important things happening today.
For example, today a woman travelling on a plane in the States was farting so much that she started secretly lighting matches to conceal the odour. The smell (of the burning sulphur) was noticed by fellow passengers, who premumed it was the start of a terrorist attack. They alerted the crew and the plane had to make an emergency landing in Nashville.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6213644.stm
"Me old China"?
Are you a Cockney in disguise?
Reg says it is silly to suggest he has attacked Protestant heritage - Jaun reposts Reg's comment about 'outdated colonialist trappings' and Reg apparently still can't understand how he has attacked Protestant heritage.
Now do y'all get it.
I firmly believe he is a Plastic Paddy in disguise.
In a word, NO.
Colm - it's even more interesting than that.
The Vintners company of London didn't rename a town called an doire .... the Bogside is OUTWITH the city walls :) They built on the remains of a trading post started a few years earlier. So Derry/Londonderry was a new "development" and that's the joke Alan - Reg rabbiting on, displaying his ignorance.
Reg and all his ilk belong with Gaelic Cultural nationalist loons like Hyde - back in the 19th century. It's a short step from their nonsense about removing all "trappings of colonialism" to Pol Pot's mindset.
Thankfully there are plenty of sensible nationalists who recognise that the British Component is as important (and more ) a part of who and what they are as any residual Gaelic component..
It's obvious - The very act of using the term 'outdated colonial trappings' is an attack on Protestant heritage because it dismisses the entire British identity of the unionist population as a sort of delusional misconceived attachment. What is there not to get ?
Assuming that anything you just wrote is the gist of MR's claim, why is it funny?
A sweeping statement that is not true.