David,

Dare I be patronising for a second?

Your view that, because the NYT and the "MSM" like McCain, therefore a real conservative must automatically not like him sounds awfully like the old unionist mantra of "we don't know what we're fer but we know what we're agin".

The post rests an awful lot on the UK media having a huge impact in America. It takes the 'we' business when referring to America a little too far.

As John McCain rightly pointed out, he was endorsed by Romney's two hometown papers, including the very conservative one.

If you think McCain is a liberal you have lost your sense of perspective.

New York's Republican party mainstays like Guy Molinari & Joseph Bruno also support McCain now that Rudy is out of race. I'd love it if someone called either of those two liberals to their face. Bruno might actually strangle the person, Molinari would just shoot them.

At what point does the majority of the Republican party stop being RINO'S? Perhaps the ultra right should be recognized for what it is, a distinct minority of the party.

LOL, mahons.

RINO? - I don't see the tell-tale "L" for left and liberal in there anywhere.

By the way, anyone see the debate last night?
(In the "Ronald Regan Library"; sounds like one of those "smallest-building-in-the-world" type jokes. But wait, wouldn't that be the G W Bush library?)

I thought McCain was rather weak in parts, Romney overbearing, Huckabee quite impressive and apparently sincere and RonPaul entertaining.

It's the ultra-left in the Republican party that worries me! It's when the GOP acts like a conservative party that it wins. Do I really need to trawl through McCain's record on the issues to demonstrate his RINOism?

This is the man who opposed a federal gay marriage ban.
This is the man objects to the overthrow of Roe vs Wade.
This is the man whose views on immigration are more liberal than Hilarys!
This is the co-author o the McCain-Feingold Campaign Reform Act,perhaps one of the more left-wing acts of Congress in the past twenty years.
This is the man who opposed tax cuts, and seeks socialised medicical care.
He IS a liberal masquerading as a conservative and I suggest the media know it which is why they support him.
The media hates conservative candidates, which is why the NYT has endorsed one. It is left left left all the way, and I stand by my criticsism of McCain. He cannot win - but then again - the MSM do not want him to win. He's an insurance policy - just in case Hillary can't quite do it.

Noel: I missed the debate last night (Thank God for small favors). I did get a kick out of the backdrop - Airforce One. Did I see Nancy greeting the lads? Good for the old girl, still the Grand Old Dame of the Party.

I don't doubt these guys are all tired, how exhausting the campaign can be. I'm 43 and I can't imagine traveling like they do under all that pressure. What little I saw and read of the highlights suggests that your ananlysis is correct.

The far right of the American rightosphere (of which I am one) has a bitter and long-standing hate-on for John McCain. Republicans will stay home in droves. If McCain is the nominee, his only chance at the White House is for sufficient Democrats to decide they can't bear to listen to the Hillary! laugh for four years.

David: A suggestion, get all the Republicans in the U.S. to cancel their subcriptions to the New York Times since it is clearly influencing them unfairly. They should all emulate President Bush and refuse to read any newspapers or magazines (excpet perhaps Mad Magazine).

A few clarifications from your list. McCain is on the record as not supporting Gay Marriage as he beleives it to be an institution reserved for a man and a woman. He takes the CONSERVATIVE position that this is an issue for the States and not the Federal government - so he isn't opposed to the federal marriage act on the merits, rather on a very conservative view of States Rights.

I've always been under the impression he was for overturning Roe v. Wade. I also note that unlike many anti-abortionist folks who sadly support the fetus but not actual children, McCain and his wife are proud adoptive parents.

I'll have to stop there for the moment, work to do.

S Weasel -well so far the Republicans are actually coming out in droves. You'd think someone was offering free golf lessons.

Not for McCain they aren't, Mahons. He's winning with independents, crossovers and RINOs, but he has yet to take a majority of Republican partisans. The people who self-identify as conservative Republicans.

Shoot...somewhere this morning, I read a breakdown of the vote so far, and now I can't remember where. The downside of casting your blogreading far and wide.

Mahons,

He flip flopped on all the issues I mentioned. My deeper point is that I believe that a significant number of conservative minded voters will NOT support him, he cannot energise the base, and I suspect S, Weasel (along with people like Monica, Patty, Troll, Daphne..) may share this view. McCain has no appeal to conservative voters, regardless of what the NYT, Ah-nuld or the others claim.

Florida was a closed primary, not independents or cross-over Democrats. And in any event guess what, the general election will have everyone so it ain't such a bad thing that he can attract votes from across the aisle.

Florida was closed, but there were widespread reports that unaffiliated voters who showed up and demanded to join the Republican Party on the spot were (illegally) allowed to do so. Whatever. Probably not that significant a number. Anyhow, McCain only took Florida by 5% over Romney. It's significant because it's a winner-take-all state.

All you have to do is tune in to talk radio or the dextrosphere today to get an idea how nuts McCain makes the rightward half of the GOP. You can't win a general if half your party hates you -- unless half the other party hates their nominee just as hard.

David: Then they'll be handing the White House to the Clintons. At some point they'll recognize THAT problem for them - even Troll has accepted tha treality.

We know that, Mahons. Those of us who won't pull the lever for McCain are basically saying "there's going to be a dreadful president for the next four years. Let's make it a Democrat."

Go 2012!

S. Weasel just nailed it.

S.Weasel/Daphne,

That's exactly how I see it. Better let the Dem's make a mess of things.

>>a significant number of conservative minded voters will NOT support him, he cannot energise the base, and I suspect S, Weasel (along with people like Monica, Patty, Troll, Daphne..) may share this view.<<

The view is all they can share, because they certainly can't share any evidence.

S.Weasel for example - who Daphne thinks just nailed it - claimed that Republicans won't vote for McCain.
When mahons then put it to him that they did so in Florida, he came out with the absurd claim that McCain won by the votes of independents, etc.
When mahons demolished this with the fact that independents were not allowed vote in Florida, S.W. replied that there were a few cheaters but their numbers were insignificant, i.e. he neutered his own argument.

Daphne, if you call that "nailing it", I'd hate to see you at a crucifixion.

Her own argument. He won the squish half of the party. Conservatives hate his guts. That's a very bad prospect for November.

America is politically divided, at this point very nearly 30/30/30. The only way to win the presidency is to get all of your own party and more than half of the people in the middle. McCain won't get a substantial chunk of his own party, so he would need a MUCH larger piece of the people in the middle to win.

Maybe. Maybe if Clinton's own party hates her by that time as much as McCain's hates him. But I wouldn't count on it. The media is going to tear him into tiny pieces, and the Democrats want the corner office too badly.

I can't help but believe that Hillary Clinton will be all that's needed to unify the Republican Party. I guarantee you that by the end of August, nearly every McCain hater will realize that even though they really don't like him, he'll be better than Hillary Clinton.

If the Democrats nominate Obama, it's over.

The expression 'making the perfect the enemy of the good' springs to mind. McCain isn't perfect, there are legitimate criticisms to be made about McCain on free speech, but whilst McCain-Feingold is a pretty appalling bill the alternative is Hillary Clinton who wants to introduce the Orwellian 'fairness doctrine' to broadcasting.

Whilst McCain's position on illegal immigration is ethically dubious the alternative is Hillary Clinton, whose husband signed an unconditional amnesty for 5 million illegals right before the 1996 election.

Whilst McCain does seem to be susceptible to flattery from media, the alternative is Clinton who will focus group every position before reaching a decision about anything.

Even on the things McCain gets wrong there is still an enormous difference between him and the alternative.

Now as I'm not American I must admit his domestic policy is of secondary importance to me except as an abstract exercise. However like a lot of those who are insisting that McCain is identical to Obama and Clinton I believe that Iraq is a crucial issue and McCain's policy is the correct one whilst Obama's is wrong and Hillary's changes by the week. Throwing away victory in Iraq because you don't like McCain's policy on gay marriage suggests a rather frivolous attitude towards the war.

Noel, McCain won 36% of the Florida vote - that's not even half of the Republicans voting for him. Of course some of the GOP will vote him now and in the General election if he wins the nomination, but a significant amount of registered Republicans will not vote for McCain to become President under any circumstance.

He is intensely disliked and mistrusted by a large segment of conservatives. We don't like him personally - he's a mean, lying nasty tempered son of a bitch.

Weasel's point that many of us would rather deal with four years of Hillary or Obama with an eye towards the next election, than see a McCain or Huckabee win is very accurate.

It doesn't matter if he'd be better. He'd be bad, which would hand 2012 to the Democrats. I'd rather have a better chance in 2012 and a shot at a real conservative than vote for a man I loathe and have his dreadful presidency hung around my neck.

The GOP has had two in a row. That makes this one a tough sell in any case. Think how narrowly we won the last two, and the instinct of the American electorate to try the other party periodically.

It won't take many Republicans who think like me to doom McCain's bid.

Good points Ross, but Reagan passed the first amnesty. There's plenty of blame to spread around on the illegal immigration issue.

What is incredibly frustrating is to watch Republicans do less to enforce borders and sanction employers of illegals than Bill Clinton did. Disgusting.

Ross, I don't even think McCain good on the war -- his signature issue.

Yes, he was the first person to call for a surge, but that was way back in early days. I'm convinced he advocated it only because it was the opposite of what the White House doing at the time. Yes, he really is that much of a jerk. Plus, he wants to shut Gitmo and explicitly enumerate what our interrogators are allowed to do (what, he doesn't trust our military to make good decisions?).

The war in Iraq is winding down in any case. I don't think there's much a Hillary! or Obama could do to ruin things, by the time January '09 rolls around. As for the next step in the global war...who knows what that is? I know this -- if Hillary Clinton thinks somebody needs a nuke dropped on his turban, she wouldn't hesitate.

You haven't seen shock and awe until you see a Democrat in control of the military, with the media lining up behind her.

Patty - why do you have comments off on your McCain post? I would like to discuss the debate and trash McCain.

As a COnservative, I feel railroaded by the liberal media and the beltway Republican insiders who want to win at any cost.

I also think McCain looked small and feeble last night. How's he going to be after 1 more year on the grueling campaign trail?

But, shhhh, his advanced age is the elephant in the room. (pun intended)

Arnorld as Gov. of Calif. ran as a Republican but morphed into a Democrat for all intents and purposes. And he replaced a Democrat in a recall which was quite unusual. His endorsement means nothing to a Conservative. He started with a huge deficit. Came in at a time of great prosperity. Spent like a drunken sailor. Introduced global warming crap for popularity. And now we have to close some state parks. Thanks for nothing, Arnold.

Opps! Thanks, Daphne! You can take out the trash now.

The ultra right wing of the Republican party is not half of its voters, but they cry loud enough (especially when they are losing) to make it seem that way.

McCain has failed to get more than 36% of the vote in any primary, Mahons. What does that tell you?

S.Weasal - that there have been more than two candidates in each primary election.