ONE NATION UNDER GOD...

One of the things that most attracts me to the United States, and which stands it apart from so many other nations, is that its founding principles were steeped in The Bible.

George Washington in his farewell address said "Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion"

Thomas Jefferson said "Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?"

John Adams said "The Bible contains the most profound philosophy, the most perfect morality, and the most refined policy, that was ever conceived upon earth. It is the most republican book in the world"

Perhaps De Tocqueville was on the money when he said in 1830 that "for the Americans, the ideas of Christianity and liberty are so intermingled that it is almost impossible to get them to conceive of one without the other"

The United States was founded on Biblical truths and still stands as a beacon in this dark work because of its unique birth and the genius of those who brought it about. One Nation under God -  NOT a nation apart from God as the secularists would like us to believe!

Comments

[Mahons]

You started late today sir, but you are cranking them out now. Good topic.
I think historically there is a good deal of truth to the fact of the influence of Christian ideals on the nation and many of its founders, but its genius to me was in promoting the ideal of not recognizing one state religion, and in allowing for a freedom of religion (and from religion).

As for the statue of Liberty holding a large cross, it is a bit off message, since it was intended as a symbol of welcoming all.

[Colm]

David

Of course though, if God does not exist then everything in your post above is just a fantasy. albeit a nice warm fuzzy fantasy. If God does exist then ALL nations are individually 'one nation under God'.

[David Vance]

Mahons,

Awfully busy day today for me!

[Alan Frost-McDonald]

David,

I'm sure that you expect me to argue against your views on the founding fathers, and I won't disappoint. For a quick read, check this analysis.

We know from their writings that founders like Jefferson, Adams, and Franklin explicitly rejected the tenets of orthodox Christianity. However, their most anti-clerical and radical rejection of orthodoxy came from their private correspondence. Thomas Paine was very public about his unorthodoxy and was personally ruined for it. Jefferson was almost ruined by the tamer stuff (than what we see in his personal letters) he wrote about religion in Notes on the State of Virginia. And Adams’s Federalist clergy supporters in the 1800 election (Jefferson’s enemies) apparently were completely unaware of Adams’s unorthodox beliefs and would have flipped out if they were privy to the anti-clerical content in the letters he wrote to Jefferson (later in their lives).

My favorite line is:

As Jefferson wrote in 1822, “I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian.”

I know I will.

[David Vance]

Alan,

Oh yes, I DO accept that they were not ALL orthodox in their faith but I challenge you to explain the above quotations in the absence of faith. They were remarkable men, and your country is a remarkable land. I happen to follow the Christian line that God blesses a nation which honours him as the UK once did but when a Nation turns its back on him.....

[daytripper]

indeed alan.

ive always liked this Thomas Paine letter.

[Frank O'Dwyer]

George Washington in his farewell address said "Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion"

That would be George Washington the slave owner explaining morality.

Thomas Jefferson said "Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?"

That would be Thomas Jefferson the slave owner explaining liberty.

John Adams said "The Bible contains the most profound philosophy, the most perfect morality, and the most refined policy, that was ever conceived upon earth.

Dude must not have read any philosophy.

Certainly can't have read the Bible.

Perhaps De Tocqueville was on the money when he said in 1830 that "for the Americans, the ideas of Christianity and liberty are so intermingled that it is almost impossible to get them to conceive of one without the other"

Indeed it was so difficult to get some of them to conceive of one in particular that a civil war was fought over slavery.

Small wonder when 'the most perfect morality ever conceived' contains instructions on how best to treat your slaves, and never condemns slavery (preferring instead to focus on dietary requirements and hairdressing matters).

Another insight from De Tocqueville:

The first who attracts the eye, the first in enlightenment, in power and in happiness, is the white man, the European, man par excellence; below him appear the Negro and the Indian.

[Alan Frost-McDonald]

David,

I challenge you to explain the above quotations in the absence of faith.

Nothing simpler. They were politicians. Case closed.

[Dawkins]

David,

Good going! They'll give you that green card yet.

I've had one for four years now. Just thought I'd mention that to tease you :0)

[daytripper]

a civil war was fought over slavery.

and in reality it wasnt even fought over that. it was a strategic decision that would be more damaging economically for the southerners than for the northerners. 'morality' is given more focus now because it makes for a better interpretation of national history. in much the same way that conquering the west was pioneering as opposed to genocidal.

[allan@aberdeen]

Tha American Civil War was caused by the tariff policies of the US government which were viewed by the south as disadvantageous.

The constitution of US was founded on the Bible. Saudi Arabia's law is based on the koran. So, Frank, which of these do you prefer? And didn't the muslim arabs have (maybe still have) some dealings with slavery?

[Alan Frost-McDonald]

Allan@Aberdeen,

The constitution of US was founded on the Bible.

Bald statement with no basis in fact. Care to prove me wrong?

[Frank O'Dwyer]

Allan,

"The constitution of US was founded on the Bible."

LOL

"Saudi Arabia's law is based on the koran. So, Frank, which of these do you prefer?"

Asking whether law should be based on the Bible or the Koran is like asking if it is better to jump off the 20th floor or the 19th.

"And didn't the muslim arabs have (maybe still have) some dealings with slavery?"

Trafficking in human beings and involuntary servitude still happens (illegally) pretty much all over the world as far as I am aware. Indeed many people of all religions still seem to think that they have the right to command the servitude of pregnant women. And even a few "agnostics" think that, don't they Allan?

[Mahons]

Frank: I agree that slavery was a stain on the nation, but I think Jefferson and Washington can be viewed more fairly in the context of their times, rather than by the standards of ours.

Daytripper: Actually, slavery was at the heart of the Civil War, although the intial "cause" was the Union of the States itself (divided as they were over the issue of slavery). Lincoln famously said if he had to keep slavery to preserve the Union he would (he believed it would eventually be wiped out). The Emanicipation Proclamation gave the Union forces their true moral center.

If you are looking for modern immorality look no further than the Communist regimes of China and the Soviet Union which you love so well.

[daytripper]

If you are looking for modern immorality look no further than the Communist regimes of China and the Soviet Union which you love so well.

id look closer to your own back yard for the lovers of modern china. which is looking more like a future model for global capitalism by the week.

[Mahons]

Daytripper: As I recall the gentleman who owns the adjoining property to my backyard fought in the Korean War, and while there developed a view of the Chinese that I must confess is not particularly kind. If he refers to China at all it is in terms that I would not suggest to anyone ordering Dim Sum at a resturant.

However, I do recall you offering China as your model of a nation once. Enjoy the Games.

[daytripper]

I do recall you offering China as your model of a nation once.

youre mistaken.

i have on many occasion said, like above, that china is a model. one i do not support, but a model none the less. a corporate wet dream of over 1.3 billion consumers, lax regulation, bottomless cheap labour and land and above all else an amenable authoritarian (and latent totalitarian) government that seems more than willing to bring to bear all the power of the state against its own people and in favour of big business.

call it what you want, but it aint communism.

[Grizzly Mama / Troll]

I always get a kick out of reading fools and halfwits reaching for straws to define the founders as men without religion.

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

yeah nothing based on a belief in god in there huh...LOL

[Frank O'Dwyer]

Troll,

"I always get a kick out of reading fools"

Matthew 5:22
Whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire

[Grizzly Mama / Troll]

I'm burning ...Arrrgggghhhh