Tuesday
21Aug2007
Riddle Me This
Tuesday, August 21, 2007 at 09:24PM If prison doesn't work, if they are so rotten that they all should be closed, if they are good only for encouraging criminals to commit more crime, what makes Learco Chindamo a special case? Coming from a family of wrong'uns, having a history of violent crime and murdering a man by the age of 15, you'd think he'd be set up to graduate with honours from the University of Crime, B Wing. But, mirabile dictu, it seems he was bottom of the class!
Chindamo's lawyer Nigel Leskin said his client was now a reformed character who was unlikely to offend again. "He was involved in a gang when he was young. He was a kid trying to act up big. He was out of control and he thought he knew everything. He now realises how wrong he was."
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Reader Comments (29)
Allow me to decipher the riddle, Pete.
It's a question of motive, you see. The leftists argue for the closure of all prisons and for more "community sentences" because what they really want is to have the lawless running free on the streets, terrorizing communities and thus furthering the destruction of our country that they hate so much and are so bitter against.
It's the same thing that motivates Chindamo's lawyers (although the ostensible reason for the plea was not to let him be deported as it would breach his - excuse me, pass me the bucket...no, the big one...- Hu...hum...hu...bleeeuuuuggh! Glass of water please...Sorry, couldn't even say it that time, but you know the phrase I mean) - but the end result is the same as in the first case: One more lawless thug free to roam OUR streets, rather than elsewhere. Mission accomplished.
Why would lefties want the terrorising of our communities and the destruction of our country? Whats in it for them? Don't they live in communities to, and in the same country? Arguably aren't they bringing up families too?
Explain the logic to me.
Of course the left don;t want that - Tom is just being rhetorical to make a point. The liberal left want to reduce crime like everyone does they are just wrong about how to deal with criminal offenders that's all.
Typhoo, good question. Actually it prompts me to clarify : By "leftists" I don't necessarily mean the ordinary Guardian-reading, Labour-voting layman on the street (they don't really understand what their beloved Marxist Parties are truly all about; most of them are just naive, thinking that socialism is all about nice cuddly things such as "equality" and "diversity" - things which no sane person could be against, given only a cursory understanding of them) - No, I am referring to the political elite, the people who know exactly what they are about and what they wish to bring about.
Marxist parties such as Labour are rooted in class-hatred, bitterness and envy at their very foundations. They don't want "equality"; they simply despise achievement and excellence because they don't possess the qualities needed to achieve or be successful at anything. And they know full well that they will never capture the hearts and minds of the electorate - perhaps at first, but certainly not once their disastrous policies begin to take effect on an economy. So their doctrine is "if we can't make you love us, we'll crush you and exert our power over you and we'll make sure you feel it". They are like spoiled babies who have been given cellos as presents. They can't play them, so instead they'll just destroy them, stamp on them and go "so there. If I can't succeed, I won't let anyone else succeed either".
Do you really think that the total state of slow-motion collapse in every area of life in this country (Home Office failures to keep track of criminals, NHS rife with bugs and closures, police powerless to enforce the law, no discipline in schools, dumbed-down exams, millions better off on benefits than if they were employed, plus the petty, snidish bans on great English traditions such as smoking in the pub and hunting) are symptoms merely of incompetence? Like Frank Spencer or something, "oooh, Betty, I had a bit of trouble"?? NO WAY! This government knows EXACTLY what it is doing, and WHY it is doing it.
For the end result, the logical conclusion, I refer you to Zimbabwe. Another Marxist who knows precisely what he is doing to his country and positively delights in it. He wants nothing left but a wasteland by the time he dies. "They wouldn't willingly vote for me, the b******ds, so I'll make them suffer until nothing is left". That's the basic ideology. Granted, we're nowhere near Zimbabwe - YET. But the aim is the same.
Typhoo,
anecdotally, the lefty-liberal mindsets i have encountered belong to the following groups....
1)they think that they'll personally benefit/gain advantage from the chaos that ensues
2)they feel so guilt-ridden and self-loathing that they have a nihilistic outlook and think we should all perish at the hands of barbarians
3)they have their head in the sand and think it will bring about a utopian hand-holding fellowship of man
4)they have their head in the sand and dont even want to contemplate the difficulty in dealing with the problem
5)they optimistically think things have a habit of evening themselves out eventually, without them having to take drastic action (failing to realise that it is the moral actions taken by others in the firing line (and with a less laissez-faire attitude), who bring about the necessary changes)
please add to my list if you know of any other psychological factors
Tom,
Good post. I'm wondering did you ever read a book called 'time to emigrate' by george walden? Remember him? This book he writes is to a ficticous son called Guy, and in it he talks about all the things you mention. Infact he goes further and says that Britain is the only country to have reverse social mobility, where children are less better off than their parents. Children are faced with classes in which many have english as a second language only, and they are held back at primary level whereas at the other end, at university they face immigrants who are high achievers.
But his explanation for things the way they are - are different to yours. He claims multi-culturalism is suited to the English. That they have the temperment for it, this along with 'white flight' where the natives who can get out. He also states that many immigrants at the higher end of the social scale out British the British, and that if only the British could get over their 'class' mentality a lot of stuff happening in schools and society would not be happening at all.
You say this government knows exactly what it is doing and why. Wouldn't it be the same with Cameron? Isn't he the face of the new Britain? Accomodating.
He claims we no longer live in countries but economies, no culture or traditions. Thats the way he sees it, and its hard to argue with it isn't it?
Gudone
Politics, Christianity, Atheism, Astrology, Boredom, jealousy, racism, nationality , misguided passion, etc. take your pick - the bad sides of Human free will. ALL Humans have the potential to do evil things.
Typhoo, yes, I agree Cameron is no better than Nu-Labour, he has swallowed the same junk and is on the same quest for power. I'm certainly not arguing that the Conservative leadership is any sort of antidote to Labour at the present time.
I think we are going through a period of huge decline in western Europe right now. Voting for either of the above won't change anything until we, as a country, as a nation, rediscover our identity and become proud of ourselves once again. I think the old "Britain" is doomed to a "Roman Empire" -scale decline. We have decided to collectively forget and apologise for our history. We can't get that history back now, the decline has gone too far. We're in for an era of oppression and hard times. Only when that has passed, will something "new" be born.
I vaguely recollect a programme where a muslim expert on radicalism explained how aroud 2% or so of Muslims were actually prepared to be actively involved in terrorism. Then there was around 5% or so who although not actively involved in any sort of violence are, nonetheless, part of the support network. Then there was around 10% who were, what he described as radicalised. His claim was that in his estimation it could take as little as two weeks to go from the radical state to the 2% prepared to commit violence. I remember thinking, crikey, that's quite a few Muslims to be concerned about. If the 2 million figure is correct then that would be around 300,000 Muslims we should be deeply concerned about. I may be a little out by 1 or 2% but that's still a lot. The point being the more Muslim immigrants there are the more, as a percentage of that number, we should be concerned about.
George mentions the past too. He claims, and you in a sense have just proved his point, that too many Britons harp back to a better age, when Britain was great and ruled the world. He said thats part of the problem. I truly think he would like a whole new re-evaluation of the national psyche. I don't think he's swallowed the same junk as the present day conservative leader/party. He doesn't have too much praise for them.
I believe myself immigration is at the heart of ALL our problems, NHS/schools/reverse mobility/crime. all of it I'd put down to immigration. Cure that and you will cure a lot of ills I think.
GA
What is your opinion of 'moderate muslims'? I'm asking because of the hearts and minds issue. Do you really think its possible to win hearts and minds with this type of ideology. Personally I think its a waste of time. Wasn't there something about support among moderates for terrorism. That was quite a high number as well.
On the other hand is it true that the police chief who tried to prosecute chanel 4 has a very un-British name and is very pro civil liberties groups? Has there been any update on that?
I do not deny that the most virulent ideological catalyst for terrorism in the world today is Islamic, nor that there is a real problem with Islamic militant intolerance and grievance. It is possible to debate and seek to address these issues and problems without going down the dangerous and evil route of assuming that simply by being Muslim you have the potential to be a terrorist.
Hundreds of millions of Muslims have passed through this earth and lived and died without ever feeling the need to slit the throats of Christians or strap bombs to themsleves. They struggle to make a living and raise families and eat laugh cry and love and try to get by in life and then die like the rest of us.
Do you mind if I be wrong and suggest otherwise. I'd rather be wrong and err on the side of caution than right and dead.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/685792.stm
"When push comes to shove even the most dedicated Jewish doctors....
Colm - I strongly advise trying to get a copy of Islam: What The West Needs To Know. In fact if you ask David to forward me your address I'll send you one. The clearest explanation of the true nature of Islam I've ever seen. The most convincing contribution was from an ex-Muslim and former PLO Fatah terrorist Walid Shoebat. In summary, there's no getting around the fact that Islam mandates and encourages violence against non-believers. That, I'm afraid, is only a small part of what we should be concerned about. Yes there's nice, fluffy, peaceful stuff in the Koran but it was all abrogated by more violent and intolerant verses once Mohammed became a warlord. Peaceful Muslims fall into one of two camps. Those who are ignorant of the true nature of what the Koran, Hadith and Sira contain and those who know full well but who obfuscate in the cause.
That was Gudone not me.
Colm, it was my post he referred to, i presume.
Anyway, there IS something excessive about muslim grieving culture aswell.
All that ludicrous ullulating and chest beating :)
Colm
They do have that potential. thats why so many parents have been jailed in the wrong, they always look to them first.
GA
I am not interested in what is in the Koran - I don't care if it urges all believers to slaughter non-believers. I am interested in the FACTS that 99.99% of Muslims have managed to live their lives without ever feeling the need to kill anyone. Just like the same proportions of Christians Jews Atheists and every other denomination of humans on this planet. Once you start to believe the evil crap that ALL Muslims have the potential to become terrorists , you then have to start thinking , well what shall we do about it. You know where I am going don't you. And yes it would be genuinely relevent to raise that historic precedent and not another lazy example of Godwin's law.
PS
Sorry Typhoon and Gudone, for mixing you both up.
No doubt until recently there were hospital staff thinking of how decent, moderate and polite their colleagues were too. Until they saw them attempt mass murder. I do speak from experience here. I've known many 'moderate' muslims. I've been in their homes and mosques. Wonderful people. As long as you don't mention Israel or Jews ....
Anyway, I shall bid you all goodnight . Don't let the (Islamic) bed bugs bite!
Pete
last comment from me . Did I give ALL Muslims the all clear. Please show me where? Take all night if you need to, you won't find it.
What is your opinion of 'moderate muslims'? I'm asking because of the hearts and minds issue. Do you really think its possible to win hearts and minds with this type of ideology. Personally I think its a waste of time. Wasn't there something about support among moderates for terrorism. That was quite a high number as well.
It's a tough question but it reminded me of an interview with Wafa Sultan I read on Jihad Watch the other day. I think her words are more powerful than anything I could come up with.
THE West was still underestimating the evil of Islam, an influential Muslim thinker has warned, insisting that Australia and the US have been duped into believing there is a difference between the religion's moderate and radical interpretations.
The US-based psychiatrist -- who has two fatwas (religious rulings) issued against her to be killed -- warned that Muslims would continue to exploit freedom of speech in the West to spread their "hate" and attack their adopted countries, until the Western mind grasped the magnitude of the Islamic threat.
"That's why the West has to monitor the majority of Muslims because you don't know when they're ready to be activated. Because they share the same basic belief, that's the problem," said the 50-year-old, who was last year featured in Time magazine's list of the 100 most influential people in the world.
But while she considered the prophet Mohammed "evil" and said the Koran needed to be destroyed because it advocated violence against non-believers, Dr Sultan struggled to articulate her vision for Muslims, whom she said she was trying to liberate from the shackles of their beliefs.
"I believe the only way is to expose the Muslims to different cultures, different thoughts, different belief systems," said Dr Sultan, who is completing her first book, The Escaped Prisoner: When Allah is a Monster.
"Muslims have been hostages of their own belief systems for 1400 years. There is no way we can keep the Koran."
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/017843.php#comments
I am interested in the FACTS that 99.99% of Muslims have managed to live their lives without ever feeling the need to kill anyone.
Colm - That's naive in the extreme. Please let me send you the DVD.
Colm,
"Sorry Typhoon and Gudone, for mixing you both up" ...
you bigot!.. you just think us anti-bleedinghearts all look the same.
:)
Colm, any idea in the world can be used to promote evil, but everybody needs a nation.
Including the Palestinians ?
There is no such thing as a 'palestinian'. Each of them has a nation and it is the arab nation, which comprises several states, the nearest being Stria, Jordan and Egypt. The Jews, finally, have their nation back and they will defend it.