SN 'P' for 'Pathetic'
Saturday, December 13, 2008 at 02:23PM 
It seems that the Scottish National Party has moved firmly on to Republican Sinn Fein territory in its doomed attempt to eradicate Britishness and break up the United Kingdom. A draft census questionnaire for Scotland for the 2011 count is aiming to firmly detach Scottish identity from that of its wider British counterpart. The cynical 'hoots mon, where's me troosers?'narrow nationalism of the SNP is hoping that, forced to make a deliberate choice between Scottishness and Britishness, the people there will opt for the former. This will then re-energise the separatist ambitions of the party who will doubtless claim that a sense of Britishness is anachronistic.
Look at the picture above. It shows supporters of Scotland's finest club decked in Union flags and red, white and blue galore. Would the bulk of these fans describe themselves first and foremost as 'Scottish'? In a post-devolution UK probably so. But they are no less British for that. This is a country where one can be Scottish and British or Welsh and British. Scotland has played a significant historical part in the development of this great Union of ours; over half of all Scots have English relatives. The intertwined destinies of these two constituent parts cannot be undone by the pathetic and feeble posturing of Scottish nationalism.
I assume that now the SNP has had to witness its separatist ambitions crumble under the weight of financial realities exposed by the credit cruch, it must resort to the most childish of methods to assure its uber-tartan footsoldiers that all is well on the good ship nationalist. It is the Caledonian version of the Provos' encouragement to vandalise post boxes in Northern Ireland with green paint: a futile attempt to obliterate pieces of British identity from the United Kingdom. It has not worked in the past and I'm convinced it will not work in the future.
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Reader Comments (55)
My red marker pen is at the ready for the census.
"NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS" is going across every page.
Bah.
I might join you, pete.
Lads - How is the planned ATW campaign against the burka coming along? You should get it going, it's bound to suceed! :)
"It has not worked in the past and I'm convinced it will not work in the future."
Sounds like it's yourself you're trying to convince Andy!
Andrew,
The Scottish separatists have now made a statement:
"A separate question on national identity has also been added to complement the ethnic group question, to allow people to express their sense of 'Scottishness' 'Englishness' 'Britishness' etc (or any combination of national identity, for example 'Scottish' and 'British')
'How is the planned ATW campaign against the burka coming along?'
I've decided to put it on hold in favour of the 'mock and laughter' method every times I see one of those monstrosities in public.
It's a shame you don't think the wearing of the veil to be a great insult to this country. I do.
'Sounds like it's yourself you're trying to convince Andy!'
I was convinced a long time ago.
No 3 colours go better together! Three cheers for the red, white and blue!
With so many Irish up here they will vote for anything anti British. You know them by their Celtic tops.
The Celtic top equals the Burka.
Tell them the famine's over!
Yeah and they should GTF home!!!
Laughable stuff from the colonially minded above me there, but Im willing to bet they each have a copy of 'Braveheart' in their DVD collection. Irony indeed.
Come on boys...it's Christmas and you should be generous to your fellow man....
Be Kind - Teach a Tim to sing the Sash !!
RS....I must be technically challenged....my copy is on Video !!
'Yeah and they should GTF home!!!'
Come come now, if the brits didn't heed that advice for 800 years, you expect others to take it? Like I said...irony ;)
RS - You expect these bags of rubbish to get irony. You flatter them!
Andrew. What are your views on English nationalism?
'Come come now, if the brits didn't heed that advice for 800 years, you expect others to take it?'
I think you struggle with political geography. Ulster's British population are loyal to the state they live in.
Celtic supporters are loyal to a state they do not live in. Although I'll put it more diplomatically than some, I really think that their loyalty to the Irish State should be matched by their migration there.
A fan of mass importation of immigrants Andrew are we.....that must explain your liking for the unionist cause in the north of Ireland ;)
I am Scottish, partly from an Irish background Andrew, which part of me should you wish to go home? Surely with an Irish name in McCann you will be parcelling up the only good part of yourself and sending it "Home" as well.
Frankly the idiotic mocking of the Irish famine and wanting to send people home is quite shocking. The unedifying racism is akin to agitating to send niggers home, after all slavery has finished, and why not the Jews as well, because the Holocaust has finished as well? No!?!?, yet you knuckle draggers wish to send home to Ireland the descendants of refugees from the catastrophe of the famine.
I am a proud member of the SNP, the governing party in Scotland. I have many friends and aquaintances(even relations Ssshhhh) who support Rangers. They are generally embarresed by the slavish devotion to Britishness of these fans(well for 90 minutes anyhow) However it is the milk fed anti-Catholicism of these poeple(discovered by UEFA circa 2003) which is their main aison d'etre, the sad wallowing in Britishness is there because it annoys patriotic Scots like myself. Anyhow many Scots would see these guys as traitors and Rangers fans are disliked by almost all the other clubs in Scotland, the fact that they would happily put the interests of another country before their own nation is particularly oderous. Perhaps Andrew you might advocate this mob being repatriated to the nation that they owe their allegiance to?
The SNP are the future, then once we have ceased to subsidise the English and given them their independence we can look to amicable relations with our nearest neighbours.
Tony - the bigotry on this thread is unedifying. Most Scots of Irish descent that I've come across are unionists (in terms of their preference for Scotland, where they live), yet here we have a someone hiding behind British patriotism (last refuge, hey Andrew?) to promote what amounts to ethnic cleansing.
In a thread that starts on Scotlands place in the Union, it degenerates into an racial attack on the Irish (the fourth nation of the Union, remember? 20% of the population of Scotland, almost 50% of population of Northern Ireland).
Is this your vision for the future Andrew?
One of the problems with Ulster loyalists is that they don't think things through.
If all those Celtic fans home get sent "home", most of them will end up in Ulster. Of course that will leave the Ulster loyalists suddenly finding themselves in the minority and being told by the majority that it's now their turn to go "home".
It's not just Scotland, far too many riff-raff of oirish stock and their hellspawn descendants in England also. I'd prioritise those for repatriation once the muzzies/negros are dealt with first.
RS
To classify as movement of people as 'immigrants', you'd have to have a viable state for them to 'immigrate' to.
Ireland did not fit that category and people from Scotland had been migrating across the North Channel for hundreds of years before the Plantation.
Northern Ireland is part of the state its majority of inhabitants are loyal to. There is no such comparison with the Irish republican population in Scotland.
'The unedifying racism...'
That's rich coming from a supporter of a club where chanting for Europe's most vicious terrorist organisation is a feature of Saturday afternoon matches.
Look, most Celtic supporters live in the United Kingdom. They have no love for the UK or else the flag of this country would be flying over Parkhead, and the two-minute silence on Remembrance Sunday would not have to be substituted for a standing ovation lest idiots disrupt the proceedings.
If they love the Irish Republic so much, let them piss off and live there. Better still, let them take their beloved club with them!!
'we have a someone hiding behind British patriotism (last refuge, hey Andrew?) to promote what amounts to ethnic cleansing....'
Except I don't support a philosophy that saw 40,000 Protestants ethnically cleansed from what now amounts to the Republic of Ireland. I leave that to the likes of you.
Late yesterday, on this thread we saw
a) a reasoned comment by Paul McMahon. It was in opposition to the views of Andrew, but was not nasty or personal in any way
b) an unforgivable and disgusting comment by someone named "Billy"
c) temperate reactions to Billy's comments by RS and by myself
Now I see that all the above comments were deleted, without explanation.
My comments on this action-
a) McMahon said nothing offensive, and removing his comment goes against the free speech premise of this place
b) Removal of Billy's comment is entirely justified. That was hate speech and an attempt to belittle and incite and nothing more.
c) Removing of the subsequent comments including my own might make sense as they don't compute without the original comment being there
d) Enough happened that I think there should be a comment either by David or Andrew as to why the comments were deleted. ( I'm curious as to who did it )
My only beef, and its a small one, is that Paul's comment was taken out too. He did nothing wrong and removing everyone's comments as was done here rewards bad behavior by Billy.
well Phantom, that wouldn't be the first time Andrew has deleted Paul McMahon's comments now would it?
He had comments deleted on another thread a couple of weeks ago.
Still, it's a step up from the days where all comments were disabled on Andrew's threads now isn't it?
Phantom,
Hi there! I have been catching up on the site and noticed two comments by Billy that were way beyond the pale and I wiped them. That's it. I rarely remove comments since most times people here know how to behave without crude hurtful vulgarity, I have not removed nor see any reason to remove any other comments!
Hi David
OK then I guess Andrew removed the comment by RS and the one by myself. ( And the completely civil one by Paul )---
Andrew
I know that we have been opponents on some fundamental things and will remain so.
But I think that yours is a voice that should be heard- I think you've seen me defending you when you have been in my opinion the victim of unfair attack here and in other places.
I would recommend that the "delete" option be seen a the "nuclear option"-- something that should never or almost never be employed. ( reserved for unforgivable comments as what billy said )
I think that Mr. McMahon's comment should be found and restored to the thread. Just as you have the right to speak, which all should defend, so too should Paul have the right to speak.
lecture deleted.See below
OOPS
I've made a big error here and wish to correct it. I meant to react to the United Ireland thread and to vile comments by billy and reactions to those vile comments afterward.
Comments about billy and Paul stand.
Points about Andrew deleting comments by me are entirely in error. He didn't delete any comments unfairly, and fair play to him and DV for what they did say.
I will amend the above comment.
General comments about deleting stand
Happy Sunday to all.
Andrew pedantry isn't a good shield. But if its good enough for you
Immigration- To enter and settle in a country or region to which one is not native.
The definition doesn't mention the necessity of having a recognised central govt. I suppose you think all birds go through customs when they MIGRATE. Great stuff Andrew, keep er lit ;)
>>'The unedifying racism...'
That's rich coming from a supporter of a club where chanting for Europe's most vicious terrorist organisation is a feature of Saturday afternoon matches.<<
Your whataboutery regarding Celtic fans support of the Irish Republican movement is supposed to negate the unedifying racism inherant in you and your supporters posts how exactly? Why do sectarian racist bigots continually ignore their own behaviour and instead try to look at the behaviour of others to excuse their own?
>>Look, most Celtic supporters live in the United Kingdom. They have no love for the UK or else the flag of this country would be flying over Parkhead, and the two-minute silence on Remembrance Sunday would not have to be substituted for a standing ovation lest idiots disrupt the proceedings.<<
I am not obliged to support the temporary status of my country in the UK. And whilst I would not have disrupted the silence on remembrance day it is wholly innapropriate to hold any kind of commemoration to British soldiers who have a history of brutalizing Irish people, of which many of us are descended. Can you not understand any of that? Differing views must be respected, and for most Celtic fans I reckon would feel the same.
On the original topic, I reckon the sooner the lines are drawn regarding who supports Scotland and who is happy to have her interests subvented in the interests of our neighbour, the better.
Phantom
McMahon has a nasty habit of being personal. I don't know where you've been hiding in relation to his posts, but he always likes to begin with general nastiness.
I have no sympathy whatsoever with the circumstances - personal, family or otherwise of someone who supports and votes for apologists for Provo terror. That's for starters.
Secondly, I did not delete any posts on here. If Bill the Dubliner wishes me to return to those times when I felt that opinions were substituted with abuse - and that I had to suspend all comments - then fair enough.
'I know that we have been opponents on some fundamental things and will remain so.'
What might that be? Your support for the dismemberment of my country? Do me a favour. Don't sit there in you ivory tower across the Atlantic supporting the constitutional destruction of my country and then seek to play the noble defender of my opinions on here.
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who wishes to see the break up of the UK, in whatever shape or form, is not somebody I want to be associated with - in any manner.
If you want to make your opinions on here - go ahead! No more, no less. Otherwise, you go your way and I'll go mine. I do not want to be on the receiving end of anyone's egality and fraternity who supports Irish nationalism. That, to me, would be an utter betrayal of everything I stand for.
So please, neither defend me nor rain down personal abuse. Just argue your point and leave the stage.
'commemoration to British soldiers who have a history of brutalizing Irish people, of which many of us are descended.'
No, you just prefer the brutalisation of IRA terrorists instead.
'Can you not understand any of that?'
Never!! Love this country or leave it. Simple!
Andrew
I'd already recognized that you didn't delete any comments here.
Paul and I almost crossed swords on something a while back and I found him to be very civil and reflective though the conversation. I've not observed anything that changes my opinion that he is an honest and civil voice, someone who thinks before he writes.
As for the rest, fair enough.
Yeah, FAIR ENOUGH!!!!
Thankfully Andrew you do not in any way represent the average Englishman's views in any way.
>>Never!! Love this country or leave it. Simple!<<
I live in Scotland and would easily pass your love test. I ask again though, would you be willing to utilise the same criteria and support the removal of the minority of Scots who do not love Scotland, and instead give their allegiance to England?
Gee, there's going to have to be all kinds of mass deportations if this premise is to be observed
deport all NI Nationalists who do not support NI remaining in UK
deport all NI Unionists who do not support NI being integrated with ROI
deport all Scots who want to remain in UK
deport all Scots who do not want to remain in UK
Whats the over and under that any of this will happen?
'Thankfully Andrew you do not in any way represent the average Englishman's views in any way.'
Have you asked them all?
I love Scotland, Northern Ireland, England and Wales. My allegiance is to the United Kingdom. Thankfully, your sick aspiration for Scottish separatism is NOT shared by the majority of your fellow Scots, just as the dismemberment of the UK is not supported by the majorities in its constituent parts.
For those who give allegiance to other states, I want them to leave. I would not support their removal by force. On the other hand I would support the removal by force of those living in this country who support terrorists seeking to undermine the UK. Hope this satisfies your curiosity.
As said before, my ( anecdotal, unscientific ) "poll" of a fair number of London based people, with no Irish connection, some of who I have known for many years, would indicate that they all would declare a national day of celebration if NI were to go its own way.
I'll leave you to battle the rest of the thread between yourselves. Off to the cinema to watch the Changeling.
Would like a review on that Eastwood movie, which I have yet to see.
>>Thankfully, your sick aspiration for Scottish separatism is NOT shared by the majority of your fellow Scots<<
To quote you Andrew;
"Have you asked them all?"
What is sick about wishing to see my nation take her rightful place as the oldest nation in European Christendom? I reckon an independence referendum would sttle the matter, but why won't the establishment parties controlled from London allow it I wonder?
Glad to know that you are happy to accept the removal of disloyal Scots into England post independence. Perhaps you could chip in and we could re-start the Ten pound POM scheme. I'd happilly contribute a tenner or twenty.
Just in. Here is some of the British heroes that we are supposed to venerate;
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DFnnC8XQ__g&eurl=http://www.sluggerotoole.com/
Like hell we will!
Andrew
When I complained about the rascism you championed on this thread you said -
"That's rich coming from a supporter of a club where chanting for Europe's most vicious terrorist organisation is a feature of Saturday afternoon matches."
I support Manchester United. Some mistake on your part surely?
Anyway, I attempted to read the rest of your reply, you seem irrationally angry. You are the owner of this post, you start of by highlighting an issue with the census and descend into anti-Irish racial hatred. It's your blog, your rules I guess. I just know I can safely ignore from now on.
Peace.
Mack - Good comment. There's a sickness in the air.
Those Scots that wish to see the island of Britain divided but the island of Ireland united have always baffled me!
If you are sending back the descendents of famine victims, I'll send you all back the descendents of the Ulster plantation.
Fair trade?
This thread is getting a bit ridiculous. I asked a colleague of mine (from Donegal) whether he felt himself to be an alien in a foreign land over here (at the time, 'here' was Aberdeen) and he said "no". And whenever I was in NI or the RoI, I didn't feel as if I were in a foreign land either.
But there are unwelcome influxes of people who actually are turning the UK into a foreign land. The differences between the indigenous peoples of the British Isles are minor.
Almost right. The differences between all people are minor.
Total BS. The differences between the indigenous peoples of the British Isles and those who would impose their doctrine on all others in the belief that they are instructed by their god to do so are unbridgeable.
Allan - You have an overactive imagination.