I won't be sorry to see them gone. It's years ago this should have happened.

The IRAs terrorist campaign never got them as many consessions from weak British direct rule governments, as the various Unionist parties in devolved administrations seem happy to give them!
Why? Just to keep their cushy jobs in a toothless Stormont? Lets not forget this all started in 1998, thanks to RUC destroyer Trimble, something the IRA could never have achieved. Had his speeches written by Eoghan Harris and Steven King , John Taylors aide de camp, and they dont come much camper!

And everyday life will go on in NI.

If it takes a little choreography then it takes a little choreography, either way P and J will be devolved barring any mishaps the sooner the better.

The IRAs terrorist campaign never got them as many consessions from weak British direct rule governments,

Glad you think that way scouser!! I believe it was all down to bargaining and negotations.

You see whether the IRA Army Council disbands is neither here nor there. Those who served on it have the blood of THOUSANDS on their hands. They need brought to justice. That is what so many twist and turn to evade. Allowing killers to walk away scot free may seem a fair price to some to pay but I see it as a rotten immoral disgusting sham.

The cynicism of this move plumbs new depths, even by the polluted standards of this process.

Of course the outcome is already determined. Like a good QC, the government will never ask a question to which it doesn't know the answer.

The cynicism of this move plumbs new depths, even by the polluted standards of this process.

How so Peter?

The charade of going through another "report" to oil the wheels of the DUP giving the Shinners what they want, in order to keep the whole show on the road.

I agree from a unionist point of view it looks like more of the same, but I disagree with you that it plumbs new depths. I don't think we'll see any more new depths, it's just more of the same blandness, which is why its ignored by most. The process isn't great it will rumble on, but its better than a vaccuum, which is when violence can move in again.

I wouldn't like to see that happen.

'thanks to RUC destroyer Trimble'

Obvioulsy you never encountered the bigoted sectarian militia called the RUC or else you would not mourn their passing.

'Those who served on it have the blood of THOUSANDS on their hands.'

David, still nowhere near the amount of Irish blood on the hands of the british armed forces here in ireland alone. Never mind those neo-colonial exploits.

'Obvioulsy you never encountered the bigoted sectarian militia called the RUC or else you would not mourn their passing.'

Funny, I never read about the RUC deliberately taking workmen off a minibus, asking them what religion they were, and then shooting those who were Catholic. Care to enlighten us?

The British Army left Ireland in 1921. The Army of the United Kingdom continues to be based in all areas of the United Kingdom - including Northern Ireland. As 10% of the recruits to the RIR come from the Republic, it is obvious many decent Irish people reject your somewhat pathetic analysis.

Iam more than familiar with what you call a "sectarian militia" Seamus. Rather than argue, i would compliment that 8 to 10% of its membership(RUC) that was Catholic throughout the troubles.As ive mentioned on here before the UKs longest serving Police officer, retired Deputy Chief Constable and a Catholic Michael McAtamney served the RUC for 42 years. Interesting isnt it that in the year following the "ceasefire" 98-99 22% of applicants to the RUC were Catholic. Thereby showing the sort of Police force there could have been but for PIRA "intimidation" during the troubles of Catholic officers and potential recruits.

'I never read about the RUC deliberately taking workmen off a minibus, asking them what religion they were, and then shooting those who were Catholic.'

Ahh, obviously your unaware of the FACTS surrounding Kingsmill, and the fact that the leader of that group spoke with an english accent, just like the leader of the Miami showban murders. I suggest you read about Brig Gen Frank Kitson and his counter-gangs and colonial warfare polices, false flag operations etc, which were employed here in ireland. It seems your not as well read on the Irish conflict as you like to pretend.

'As 10% of the recruits to the RIR come from the Republic, it is obvious many decent Irish people reject your somewhat pathetic analysis.'

Actually these would be the fellas who don't make it into the Irish Defence Forces.

Andrew

The British Army left Ireland in 1921

The IRA drove them out. If it had not been for the IRA they would never have left. It was also the IRA that brought down the corrupt and bigoted Unionist regime at Stormont. And it was the IRA which stopped the British from re-imposing Unionist rule in the north.

The Northern Ireland state can never again be the Protestant state for a Protestant people it was established for.

The RUC is smashed. the Orange Order is smashed and the Unionist party is finished. The DUP is much more democratic that the UUP and is a better partner for nationalists in government in my opinion. It does not have the same links to the British Establishment and does not share the upper class twittery that sees natives as second class citizens.

It is in effect a working class unionist party. And the unionist working class were never the problem.

'FACTS surrounding Kingsmill'?

Yeah, the FACTS were that the IRA murdered people purely because they were Protestants. Just like at Darkley and at La Mon. Care to list an RUC massacre with similar methodology?

Henry

It was the IRA that murdered 50% of the Troubles' victims. A cowardly, sectarian, bloodthirsty band of shits that deserved, and deserve, to be executed slowly and painfully.

End of story!!!!!

”Yeah, the FACTS were that the IRA murdered people purely because they were Protestants. Just like at Darkley and at La Mon. Care to list an RUC massacre with similar methodology?”

Firstly Andrew, Darkley was the INLA, not the IRA.

Also, it is estimated that between August 1975 and January 1976, the proceeding six months before Kingsmill, that the RUC’s Special Patrol Group was involved in 18 sectarian murders of Catholic civilians in the South Armagh area. While this in no way justifies Kingsmill, it also shows that this was in no way one sided.

”It was the IRA that murdered 50% of the Troubles' victims. A cowardly, sectarian, bloodthirsty band of shits that deserved, and deserve, to be executed slowly and painfully.

And the IRA was also the only organisation involved in the Troubles were less than half of the victims were civilian. Over half the people that the British Security Forces murdered where innocent civilians, while only around a third of the IRA’s victims where civilians.

'Darkley was the INLA, not the IRA.'

Republican scum is republican scum.

Feeble attempts to implicitly or explicitly equate sectarian, murdering terrorists (of whatever hue) with the courageous men and women of the RUC is doomed to fail - whether it be on this site or in the wider hearts and minds of the broad Northern Ireland populace.

By the way, I'm still waiting for you to give me a legal and factual account of how a 'foreign power' is 'occupying' 'your country'.

Even if your figures were true, which given your republicanism I severely doubt, the raw number of what you term 'innocent' civilians killed by the IRA vastly outnumbers those killed by the Army and the RUC GC.

When you think that the Army had, on average, 25,000 - 30,000 troops stationed in NI, whilst the IRA only had a few hundred 'volunteers' (to use the honeycombed description republicans employ) even your dubious figures speak volumes.

Alright, here are the figures.

British Security Forces: Caused the deaths of 362 people, 187 happened to be Civilian. That is 51.66%.

Loyalist Paramilitaries: Caused the deaths of 1,020 people, 846 of them were Civilian. That is 82.94%.

Republican Paramilitaries: Caused the deaths of 2,056 people, 711 of them were Civilian. That is 34.58%.

Breakdown of Victims of Republican Paramilitaries:

Civilian: 711
British Security Forces: 1,105
Republicans, including Informers: 185
Loyalists: 45

Now, that is if we clump all the organisations together.

The IRA, on its own, killed 1707 people. 498 of them were civilian. That is 29.17% of IRA victims were civilian.

So, while yes the IRA did kill more civilians that British Security Forces, but this is also not taken into consideration the collusion by British Intelligence and British Security Forces into the murder of innocent civilians. If we were privy to said figures I would imagine the number of civilian deaths caused by the British would be similar to the amount killed by the IRA.

”Feeble attempts to implicitly or explicitly equate sectarian, murdering terrorists (of whatever hue) with the courageous men and women of the RUC is doomed to fail”

It is doomed to fail when talking to people like you Andrew, who are so blind that they can’t see the things right in front of their face.

”By the way, I'm still waiting for you to give me a legal and factual account of how a 'foreign power' is 'occupying' 'your country'.”

The people of Ireland never voted in favour of the Union and when we voted against the Union, the British ignored it until they suffered a large number of military defeats against the IRA. They then retreated from part of my country but still are ignoring the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland and are still occupying six counties in the north eastern part of my country, my country being the 32 country Ireland, as declared by Pádraig Pearse on the 24th April 1916, and as endorsed by the people of Ireland on the 14th December 1918.

'...collusion by British Intelligence and British Security Forces.'

If the figures don't stack up, bring in that old chestnut. Why not bring in Ma and Pa Kettle as well?

'It is doomed to fail when talking to people like you Andrew, who are so blind that they can’t see the things right in front of their face.'

It is doomed to fail - period!!

'They then retreated from part of my country but still are ignoring the democratic wishes of the people of Ireland and are still occupying six counties in the north eastern part of my country, my country being the 32 country Ireland, as declared by Pádraig Pearse on the 24th April 1916, and as endorsed by the people of Ireland on the 14th December 1918.'

But not endorsed in UK, European, International and, since 2/12/1999 the people of the Republic, either.

So forget the Paddy Pearse shite. Once again, how does a 'foreign power' 'occupy' a 'part' of 'your country'?

No chicken shit historical histrionics. Just the facts will do!

"since 2/12/1999 the people of the Republic, either."

Andrew, did the referendum state "Do you want a United Ireland, as voted for by the people of Ireland on 14th December 1918, and subsequently ignored by the British Empire?" or did the referendum say "Do you want to rewrite Article 2 and 3?".

The Articles were subsequently rewritten and replaced by an aspiration, which is, at best, increasingly rhetorical in nature.

The claim to Northern Ireland (illegal and not recognised by any other country) was removed. Simple.

So, yet again (yawn) how is 'a part' of 'your country occupied' by a 'foreign power'?

Alright, I'll go slowly for you Andrew, as you are having trouble keeping up.

1) Ireland [My Country] declared its independence in 1916. It was previously independent until 1801, when the undemocratically elected Irish House of Commons signed away our sovereignty.

2) It was further backed up in 1918, when the Irish people voted for freedom.

3) It was subsequently ignored by the British Empire [Foreign Power] who sent her army to invade and occupy Ireland, against the wishes of the people and the Government of Ireland, thus causing the Tan War.

4) Following Britain's defeat in the Tan War, she retreated to the north eastern part of Ireland, where her army stay to this very day. When an Army of one country, is in another country, without that countries permission, it is an occupation [still occupied].

Everything clear enough for you Andrew?

'Ireland [My Country] declared its independence in 1916. It was previously independent until 1801, when the undemocratically elected Irish House of Commons signed away our sovereignty.'

Ireland was never united except when it was part of the United Kingdom.

'It was further backed up in 1918, when the Irish people voted for freedom.'

A vote to break up the United Kingdom in which the rest of the people of the United Kingdom were never consulted.

'It was subsequently ignored by the British Empire [Foreign Power] who sent her army to invade and occupy Ireland.'

Army regiments were based in Ireland throughout her time as part of the United Kingdom (as is customary with all national armies) and had substantial numbers of local recruits.

'she retreated to the north eastern part of Ireland, where her army stay to this very day. When an Army of one country, is in another country, without that countries permission, it is an occupation'

She didn't retreat anywhere. Had Ireland not been partitioned by Westminster it would have ended up being partitioned by the inevitable outworkings of a very bloody civil war. Ireland partitioned the United Kingdom, not the other way around.

Today, the Army of the United Kingdom draws many of its troops stationed in Northern Ireland from the local population. It doesn't need the permission of the Republic or anyone else to garrison the Army in NI, as NI is a sovereign and internationally recognised part of the United Kingdom.

So, from he who apparently has 'trouble keeping up', how does a 'foreign power occupy part of your country'?

Andrew when are you going to get stuck into the scots?
I'm looking forward to that? I suspect you'll be getting a little hot under the collar, a bit of raised blood pressure? And why the wait?

”Ireland was never united except when it was part of the United Kingdom.”

Actually, it was united on several occasions before Britain was ever United, never mind Britain and Ireland. Brian Bórumha united the country in the 11th Century. Secondly, the Kingdom of Ireland existed between 1541 and 1651, and again between 1659 and 1801.

”A vote to break up the United Kingdom in which the rest of the people of the United Kingdom were never consulted.”

Why should a Foreign country be allowed to vote on whether my country gets freedom?

” Army regiments were based in Ireland throughout her time as part of the United Kingdom (as is customary with all national armies) and had substantial numbers of local recruits.”

Against the wishes of the population, as stated in 1918. The existence of local recruits does not indicate support as many of them joined the British Army as a means of employment.

” So, from he who apparently has 'trouble keeping up', how does a 'foreign power occupy part of your country'?”

Just because international opinion supports the British Occupation of Ireland doesn’t mean that it isn’t an occupation.

'Just because international opinion supports the British Occupation of Ireland doesn’t mean that it isn’t an occupation.'

LOL!!

Just because Seamus has been shown up to be a small-minded little prick whose own definitions of constitutionality are supposed to dwarf those of respected members of the international community, and constitutional lawyers to boot, doesn't mean he isn't persistent.

Tell you what, instead of battling with me, why don't you find a book on constitutional law that backs up your interpretation of 'occupation'.

How about 24 hours to find one?

I'm signing off. Find a legal text that supports your interpretation of 'illegality'.

Look forward to seeing your response tomorrow night. Can't wait to read the excerpt.