THE DAILY MAIL'S DARKEST MOMENT YET..
Wednesday, January 7, 2009 at 09:05AM The British press is notoriously anti-Semitic and so Israel can always expect to get hammered when she seek to defend herself.
True to form the Daily Mail thunders "Gaza's darkest day: 40 die as Israel bombs 'safe haven' UN school." I think what the MEANT to say was "Hamas's darkest hour; 40 die as Hamas uses UN school to attack Israel."
The Mail continues.." Israel has shown the first signs of bowing to the international outcry over its 11-day onslaught of Gaza after some 40 Palestinians sheltering in a United Nations school were killed."
"Bowing" - really?Yes, best those pesky Jews bow down to the "international outcry", right?
The onslaught is not against Gaza, of course, it is against Hamas.
The Mail continues.."Many children were among the dead in what Gordon Brown called the ‘darkest moment yet’ in the Gaza crisis."
How do we know there are many children deads and how do we know what killed them? Hamas tell us, that's how! And we must take their word as gospel since we know they would never lie. Was it the explosives that Hamas STORED at the UN school detonating as a secondary explosion that caused these deaths? If this was the slaughter of the innocents, as The Mail pretends, then WHY were several named Hamas terrorists killed at the scene? Perhaps they were just passing by? What rotten luck for them.
I repeat that this is the darkest hour for the vermin in Hamas and yet the British media is projecting this shame onto Israel. Old media habits die hard.
Hamas in Islamo-Fascism, Israel 
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Reader Comments (185)
"Gaza's darkest day: 40 die as Israel bombs 'safe haven' UN school."
David please take me through where exactly this statement is bigoted toward the religion of judaism which warrants you labelling it 'anti-semitic'. Serious question, I would appreciate a serious reply.
An article all these 'defenders' of Israel should read
A interesting article with a hypothetical situation for people to consider
>>David please take me through where exactly this statement is bigoted toward the religion of judaism which warrants you labelling it 'anti-semitic'.<<
RS, we've been through this before: Any approach criticising Israel is by definition anti-semitic according to ATW-speak.
Large parts of the Israeli media, the Knesset, and of course the larger part of the media in the world, as well as everything from the US State Department to most sane commenters on this site, are anti-semities to a man!
>> I think what the MEANT to say was "Hamas's darkest hour;<<
Come off it, David. At other points you're moaning that Hamas benefits from the propaganda value of such attacks, which it obviously does.
Your phoney swaggering fools nobody.
Whatever way you look at it, that attack was bad for the Israelis. Even their own media - where until 2 days ago a picture of a wounded Palestinian was about as unlikely as a cameo of Hitler - have now started criticising the IDF leadership.
Johann Hari and Rabbi Lerner! - two of the most prominent 'liberals' who will criticise Israel whether right or wrong!
Israel has always had a cadre of the 'left' who see Israel as their personal fiefdom, all delusional, of course. As with their ilk wherever they are found they seek to detract and undermine any with whom they disagree, - neither have much credibility, although well known.
For them there is nothing that a good dose of appeasement and surrender will not cure. Far from being patriotic Jews, - who incidentally don't even live in Israel, they are yet another in the long list of that counry's enemies.
Hamas should not have cried 'wolf' so often in the past, little wonder that only the bigots believe their 'news' now!
David Vance, you are a righ wing facist and should be ashamed of yourself.
Go to hell.
Israel has banned journalists from Gaza to hide their slaughter of the innocent. If there were weapons in these schools why not let journalists in? The UN denies HAMAS had fighters there and the only pictures we see are those produced by Palistinian journalists not already killed by the blanket bombings.
Yesterday you blogged about the Kingsmill killings and how it affected you and your friend. Today you seem to be glorying in the indiscriminate murder of women and children. Is this hypocrasy or just anti Arab racism?
Of course we can expect ATW's revolting anti-semites to chime in under the pretence of criticizing Israel and not Jews per se.
Perhaps you would both care to explain anti-semitic.
Phoney swaggering Noel? LOL at you, after the reams of anti semitic tosh you have posted on this site and your unmitigated sympathy for Hamas.
You both unquestioningly support and believe that group - one which revels in fully stated and fully loaded Jew hatred.
You are both plainly anti-semitic.
Richard,
"after the reams of anti semitic tosh"
I think you're lying. But let's see. Since you claim Noel has posted reams of anti-semitic tosh it should be easy for you to post 3 or 4 examples.
Happy to see that Israel has not changed her stance at all in light of yesterday's Hamas blunder other than to consider a proposal giving her exactly what she wanted.
And Ehud Olmert is said to be considering demanding an inquiry from the UN into Hamas’s alleged use of its installations as a cover for its militants.
Cool move.
It all backfired on Hamas yesterday. Blood on their hands that won't come out in this wash!
Hi USA,
Many thanks! If you ever feel able to construct an argument I look forward to dealing with it. Now, off you go and lie down until that fever passes.
His unfettered support and excuses for Hamas whose stated aims are clear. Need a repro of their aims? If you lie down with dogs!
Richard,
Noel has posted here a long time and I've never seen him post anything remotely anti-semitic.
Please post the examples I asked for to support your statement. No need to do so if you were lying and cannot support it.
"Johann Hari and Rabbi Lerner! - two of the most prominent 'liberals' who will criticise Israel whether right or wrong!"
Yes it's not an impressive line up, especially as Hari has already demonstrated that he is both incompetent and dishonest. Lerner on the other hand is a 9/11 truther.
I think the plethora of identities of new people here accusing Noel and various other posters of being anti-semites are all the same person.
There is someone who is known to have an obsession with the owner of the site and has a history of inventing false identities to post drivel designed to post drivel.
Once again for your benefit Frank.
Noel consistently supports and excuses Hamas and has done so dozens of times on this site.
He has stated a dozen or more times that his sympathies lie wholly with them in this debacle. I have neither the time nor the inclination to trawl back through his 'swaggering' comments. They are available for your perusal since you require the summary.
Hamas have openly stated anti semitic aims. Please google those also if you so desire. It is easy enough to find out PRECISELY what Noel supports and sympathises with.
Right so we have a journalist Hari, who has been more accused of islamaphobia, being labelled an anti-semitie on here, and a JEWISH Rabbi being labelled the same. What a strange world ATW is.
Also Richard I would second Franks motion, and ask you to provide evidence against Noel. I think I'll be waiting a long time.
Richard,
"He has stated a dozen or more times that his sympathies lie wholly with them in this debacle."
Please post the 3 or 4 examples I asked for to support your original claim, before posting new statements that you cannot support either.
You say there are 'reams' of examples to choose from, and now you say there are 'dozens'. I count none.
If you are telling the truth it should be easy for you to post several examples to support your claims. Why so shy?
"Right so we have a journalist Hari, who has been more accused of islamaphobia, being labelled an anti-semitie on here, and a JEWISH Rabbi being labelled the same. What a strange world ATW is."
Who labelled them anti-semites?
Frank, what is it you don't understand? Hamas perhaps.
Please google Hamas stated aims. Then understand the expression if you lie down with dogs. Noel is on record here as sympathising with Hamas. Please simply follow further comments he makes. How about that?
One presumes you don't know the stated aims of Hamas.
The only consistent drivel posted on this site is from Noel who time and again seems to enjoy accusing David Vance of posting lies and bullshit each and every time a post goes up. No counter worth its salt. No proof of these lies. No Frank to wade in and demand proof.
I note that none of you rush in agitated when Noel posts such accusations?
So perhaps Noel could indulge us with some proof of his own regards David and his position. Which, by extension, applies in Noel's view to those who unequivocally support Israel.
Richard,
"Frank, what is it you don't understand?"
I don't understand how you can claim 'reams' and 'dozens' of examples and not be able to post any examples, unless you lied.
Ernest,
'Israel has always had a cadre of the 'left' who see Israel as their personal fiefdom, all delusional, of course. As with their ilk wherever they are found they seek to detract and undermine any with whom they disagree...
For them there is nothing that a good dose of appeasement and surrender will not cure. Far from being patriotic Jews...they are yet another in the long list of that counry's enemies.'
I'd venture that is was precisely this kind of manichean (non-)thinking which compelled that truly 'patriotic Jew' Yigal Amir to assassinate General Yitzhak Rabin?
Okay Frank. Simple. I have not the time right now though it is evident to me from what I have read here the last few weeks.
But I will play ball. I will when I have a spare hour later today and in my own time not work's, go back over what has been posted by Noel this last week and post them up here for your persual. Fair?
However can you please advise if you believe Hamas are anti-semitic. I feel there is a BASIC lack of understanding of what it means to fall into this category and I do not wish to waste my time. Because for me the issue is extremely clear cut.
It is a simple enough question.
Are Hamas anti semitic.
Please do google what you need to answer that.
I would also like to ask Noel to substantiate his accusations over the alleged porkies David has posted in support of Israel.
Again if you all need I can re post the unsubstantiated accusations I read from him in this respect. I feel you should wade in and ask him to follow suit also.
Cheers, Frank.
>>Noel is on record here as sympathising with Hamas.>>
>>Noel consistently supports and excuses Hamas and has done so dozens of times on this site.
He has stated a dozen or more times that his sympathies lie wholly with them in this debacle.<<
You are a liar, Richard. Even if support for Hamas = hatred of Israel = anti-semitism, which it cleraly doesn't, you won't be able to find one example.
What you will be able to find (and you won't have to look further than yesterday, but I have said this repeatedly since Ive been commenting here) is that I admire and support Israel, that I have criticised military actions of Hamas, Israel and Hezbollah and that I wish for a solution where the Israelis and Palestinians live happily every after.
I fact AFAIK I am the only commenter here who has consistently said that.
I am aware that such a solution amounts to anti-semitism for you, and all the others here who live in the same lexical and logical fantasy world of hatred. But you can't expect me or anyone sane to become part of your lunacy, even for a few minutes each day.
>>Noel who time and again seems to enjoy accusing David Vance of posting lies and bullshit each and every time a post goes up. No counter worth its salt. No proof of these lies.<<
You are a fool. David even went on to change some of the things Ive accused him of lying about.
Tell you what - quote me any case where I accused David of lying that was not justified.
I'll argue it out with you here.
>>I would also like to ask Noel to substantiate his accusations over the alleged porkies<<
Well, one recent post was when he claimed Gaza is less densely inhabited than the Channel Islands
It was easy for me to show that to be a lie.
He later made a similar and equally foolish attempt to show the people there aren't really suffering so much after all from this congestion.
However, the report of the CIA - another bastion of anti-semites for you I assume - says that the place is one of the most over-crowded in the world, that there is economic hardship and real human suffering there and it is generally directly due to Israel's actions, for whatever reason.
The impartiality that you cite is total nonsense!
You most assuredly have waded in to defend Hamas straight out the gate UNQUESTIONINGLY on umpteen occasions.
You have >consistently< defended Hamas' actions, dismissing Israel's, over the last few weeks. I can cite several examples of that later for your persual.
You do not acknowledge any argument put to you that presents Hamas in a murky light and you throw in an accusation at the earliest opportunity to dismiss David and Israel's position on each and every occasion.
You buy into Hamas versions of events at every opportunity and then accuse David of the same in reverse.
This thread is an example of that.
For one thing the issue you mention is very much open to debate. Your accusation was straight up that David was a liar - generally regards Gaza and space.
Since the issue is open to debate with both sides able to present a picture of Gaza and yourself merely posting other people's references, then David is not a liar. His view simply does not jive with yours.
You made the accusation quickly enough though Noel. You called him a liar >in general< straight out of the gate.
In the end and in point of fact we could wrap this discussion up simply right here and now.
Do you believe Hamas is an anti semitic organisation? Yes or no.
"Who labelled them anti-semites?"
Finally somebody is seeing the light. So it is possible to be critcal of Israel without being labelled an anti-semite? I thought, according to ATW that if your critical of Israel by extension your an anti-semite. So if these two are not anti-semites, please explain how other people who criticise Israel are.
Ridiculous. And the same tactic everytime. Cant counter the argument so reach for the anti-semite card.
Unfortunately Noel, history is on their side, and will likely have brief or no records on the Arab people of the land formerly called Palestine. Eventually the whole situation will not exist. Time is on Israels side.
PS to all. You can get news from inside Gaza via www.livestation.com
>>Do you believe Hamas is an anti semitic organisation? <<
Oh, don't be so coy. We're waiting for some of your "reams" of examples that Noel Cunningham is an anti-semitic organisation!
It's never good to distract a focussed mind from a given task!
Quick review. First serving.
http://atangledweb.squarespace.com/httpatangledwebsquarespace/germany-calling.html#comments
You seem happy enough to side with "your boys" in this example Noel. Someone as impartial as you insist you are would have been quick to dismiss that, state your impartiality and recite your boys in parenthesis at least.
Now play ball. Do you believe your boys are anti semitic or not.
Richard I have looked at the Germany calling thread and can't for the life of me find where Noel showed any bigotry toward the religion of Judaism? Perhaps you have a quote im not seeing?
What in
http://atangledweb.squarespace.com/httpatangledwebsquarespace/germany-calling.html#comments
indicates I'm anti-semitic, Richard?
Specifics please.
regards the lies
>>the line that "Gaza is one of the most densely populated places on Earth."
Well, it is quite densely populated but nowhere near as densely populated as....
1. The British Channel Islands.<<
What? Gaza is MUCH more densely populated than the Channel Island, David!!
I'm afraid you'd better start nailing your own lies!
Except that he didn't lie. He quotes a source. The overall point still stood and was later backed up by another piece. You disagreed with said piece and suggested it was all a fabrication and he was a fool.
Your immediate willingness to engage in the argument impartially is astonishing!
You should at least bother to retract the statement that he is a liar as that is plainly untrue.
Really. How impartial of you to only accept your version of things and facts that back up your argument.
Where is your impartiality Noel?
You would appear to be very one sided in every single post up here.
So again - that one side of yours. Are they anti semitic yes or no?
Noel and RS
I don't have time for your games. I have stated clearly the reference to 'your boys' in that thread - with an explanation. You are not stupid so re read it and answer the question.
Phantom refers to your boys.
>You seem happy enough to side with "your boys" in this example Noel. Someone as impartial as you insist you are would have been quick to dismiss that, state your impartiality and recite your boys in parenthesis at least<
Now play ball. Do you believe your boys are anti semitic or not.
"So if these two are not anti-semites, please explain how other people who criticise Israel are."
Quite simple really, there are many reasons people oppose Israel, anti semitism is but one possibility.
Although many of those who oppose Israel for reasons unrelated to its jewishness do end up as apologists and deniers of some of the most vicious anti-semites like Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran.
>>Do you believe your boys are anti semitic or not.<<
LOL Richard, it doesn't work like that.
You said that Noel Cunningham is anti-semitic, you claimed there was "reams" of evidence to prove it, you then went off to look for some examples.
Now it appears you were kidnapped by Hamas somewhere along the line.
But where is the evidence of me being anti-semitic that you promised to provide?
Daytripper
Noel Cunningham in Brown Wades In
"Scrape away the cant and it's easy to see that the warmongers are more intetrested in Arab-bashing than in peace for Israel"
The rest of us can assume Noel's poster boys for peace aren't ever Jew bashing one supposes.
Richard, it seems you have no evidence to back your accusation that Noel is anti-semitic. C'mon if your so sure, surely there must be some evidence of his bigotry toward the religion of Judaism, so lets have it.
'The rest of us can assume Noel's poster boys for peace aren't ever Jew bashing one supposes.'
Richard is it impossible to be critical of Israel without being anti-semitic? Serious question?
LOL Noel, um, yes it does.
You would be all over a poster here like a fly on shit if they accepted the Nazis as 'their side' unchallenged.
You also claim to be impartial. Here you are hoisted on your own petard in about three seconds flat, in a thread where 'your boys' are clearly...your boys Noel.
So much for your impartiality.
Your boys are openly anti-semitic. Or perhaps you don't agree? In which case fair enough. Say so.
Would you define them as such?
With yourself as a Hamas sympathiser?
>>Although many of those who oppose Israel for reasons unrelated to its jewishness do end up as apologists and deniers of some of the most vicious anti-semites like Hamas,<<
Not many do, Ross.
The problem is that a lot of folk think if you are against Israeli occupation you support (they use words like completely and unquestioningly support, etc.) all those who risist Israeli agggression (and in that they snif out anti-semitism).
It's like saying the ancestral Richard, the patriotic Briton I assume he was, was a Communist, and indeed a Stalinist, between 1941 and 1945.
But before 1939 ancestral Richard, being of course an ardent anti-Communist, was also a Nazi.
With his undoubted affection for the Jews he was obviously also an anti-Nazi.
Ergo he was a Nazi and an anti-Nazi at the same time.
This is the kind of tangled web in heads like Richard's.
also, this pearl
"I admire and support Israel, that I have criticised military actions of Hamas, Israel and Hezbollah ="
In not one of the threads I have bothered to check have you shown ANY critique of the military actions of Hamas or risen to the challenge regards that issue, put to you several time.
In the EU to the Rescue thread you seem particularly impartial in justifying suicide bombers. With barely a word on the rockets fired into Israel from Gaza. Money, arms and rockets supplied c/o aid money and Iran whose fully stated aims regards Israel are also clear.
You never responded to either challenge put to you either. Perhaps you could clarify your impartiality here.
Hey Richard,
If you want to check out serious Nazi-like commentary have a read of this - one or two points from your good self would help me!
http://sluggerotoole.com/index.php/weblog/comments/gaza-the-death-or-birth-of-political-moderation/P75/
My own view is that Noel is a decent guy though he and I will never agree on this! I do not think he is an anti-Semite but he is very hostile to Israel, as is his right. I just don't agree with a word he says.
RS is a curious specimen - an anti-semite to the core though oddly enough in denial of this. Had we a psychiatrist on ATW (AND lord knows he would be busy) I dare say that a PhD could be the result of an in-depth Nazi-denial study!
Indeed Noel, like saying everyone who follows the reformed faith of Martin Luther is an anti-semite because the man himself was a notorious one. Utter horseshite of course. No doubt there may be anti-semitic Palestinians, but you will find anti-semites among every kind of people on earth. But on here if you support the Palestinians right to resist the zionist agression, then ergo your automatically an anti-semite. Pure fantasy, but thats what makes ATW so enjoyable.
>>where 'your boys' <<
Are you seriously citing someone said about me by my opponent in an argument as being my words?
>>You also claim to be impartial.<<
I never said I was. Not only do you not know how to think straight, it appears you can't even read and understand simple English!
Now, where are those examples of my anti-semitism you promised?
'RS is a curious specimen - an anti-semite to the core though oddly enough in denial of this.'
David I guess if you follow the reformed faith your an anti-semite too?
If not, then please demonstrate examples of where I myself have been bigoted toward the faith of judaism.
It is quite clear to me Noel. I have made it clear my definition revolves around Hamas sympathies and you have not yet put forward a worthwhile counter.
I on the other hand have, as requested, posted a juicy nugget here which merits an explanation and which you seem to be refusing to indulge us with.
Again for clarity. Simple enough to answer.
You accepted that Hamas were your boys in that thread:
Do you sympathise with Hamas?
Do you think 'your boys' are anti semitic?
And you cannot possibly claim to be impartial from any of the threads from the past week. So you are a liar.
As you said to Patty when I was persuing one of the many threads on this topic:
"R.S you can assume form Patty's silence you are right"
I shall assume from your silence and your fidgeting around these questions that I remain correct.
No Noel. I am throwing back at you your own words! You made it clear you accepted which side you were on in that thread when you declared Israel were Phantom's boys and did not refute what he said to you. You maintain you are impartial. From that thread - hardly. So to your boys...?
Surely you can answer some basic questions about Hamas.
Richard I tae it if you follow the reformed faith your anti-semitic?
>>In not one of the threads I have bothered to check have you shown ANY critique of the military actions of Hamas or risen to the challenge regards that issue,<<
You haven't looked far. I criticised them just yesterday - twice, I believe,
>>I do not think he is an anti-Semite but he is very hostile to Israel, <<
Thanks, David, but for what it's worth (and it's obviously worth precious little to people like Richard) I have said countless time here that - while I despise Israel's policies via-a-vis the occupied territories, as do many Israelis - I think it is a great country and that I support its right to live in peace and security.
I happen to think there's a way to achieve this without occupation or war.
On another note. Would it be ever possible to instal some kind of search engine for the ATW archive?
Maybe some readers know how this can be done.
It would make life easier for those searching, and more difficult for those who deny they've ever said something, etc.
Maybe even help Richard come to terms with the truth? :)
I'm sure most of us would be willing to hit the tip jar for this kind of improvement.
Hello David, how about that evidence of my anti-semitism? Or will I just take it that your anti-semitic too?