Not sure if it would deter the bastards that did this.
Dave I go apocalyptic on this stuff; "the war of all against all" like revelations says.
I trust God knows what he's doing, and just try to be happy and spread good vibes.
If that's cheese-eating-surrender-monkeyism, its because I can't cope or filter this kind of evil.
Give it God.

True Percy, I doubt very much if people consider the punishment they will recieve if caught before they carry out such henious crimes. This idea of capital punishment is one i have yet to fully decide on myself. Live by the sword....eye for an eye and all that, but does that drag us down to their level? I suppose the Sabbath is a rather fitting day for contemplating such things.

The police as with all these stabbing and gun crimes are to be commended on just how quickly the found and arrested those involved. I wonder how they did it eh. And if the CCTV footage shows them at the scene and DNA evidence proves them the murderers and a jury convicts.. they should of course SWING.

Indeed RS
One of my objections to the extreme Right is:
The almost tangible glee in the pursuit of Justice can become as bloodthirty as the villains deeds themselves and that diminishes all of us.
If we reduce ourselves to Hatred, the enemy has already won; and in pursuing the monster , all too often we become the monster.
I refuse to go down to the level of my enemy.
Hence for example the 42 days is a step too far!

A step and a half to far. the sad thing is, I don't see that figure ever being lowered. It will only keep increasing with the govts who enjoy their bit of scaremongering. Taxi for Mr Orwell.

aye RS, so bad to be taken for populism.
Alison don't get me wrong, aint no lib-whinger, the killer(s) should never be let out.
Impossible to rehabilitate after this crime.
Reminds me of the Bulger killing.
A new low

Life Imprisonment - no possibility of parole.

The police think one person managed to do all this. Sounds to me like two or more were involved.

Failure to execute does not equate a failure to punish.

Sick? Evil? both? I don't know - but either way we need to be protected from these things and I also think so do those that do it.

God help those involved, family and those who have to aquait themselves more intimatily with the details than I have to.

I was in complete agreement with this piece and indeed physically nodded all the way through - until the last sickening conclusion.

This was an act of utter evil and barbarity, possibly unsurpassed in UK/Irish history.

But to draw a conclusion that liberal society is somehow reluctant to punish such evil is unwarranted and is a pathetic attempt to make a political point out of the most horrible of human suffering. And, it has to be said, that is what this blog has done many times before now.

What should the police/judiciary, as the agents of our *liberal society* do, in response to this?

Stab the convicted perpetrator 200 times?

100 times?

Once?

Hang, draw and quarter them?

A gut response is a natural human reaction to such horror. But then, if anyone would like to see what human view as *entertainment* (and its not 100 miles from what happened here) rent or buy the video *Hostel*.

jo,
that's exactly why we have court procedures that are the apex of solemnity and order in our world.
A formal serious affair is a trial, where potentially an innocent person could be send down.
Courts don't do emotion.
But a life sentence is the most serious thing passed.
Cheering is inappropriate.

That 'film' Hostel is torture porn and is a sickening reflection on how revolting horror and torture passes for entertainment these days. I remain pretty convinced that this sort of sordid viewing desensitises people to such a degree that we have kids running around stabbing one another for a laugh and men capable of this kind of horrendous crime. It was hugely popular and that speaks volumes in itself even if you do not subscribe to the view that it influences.

It is no surprise either with our ridiculous punishment system here that the horrendous rapist Levi Bellfield admitted to fellow convicts before being let out to go on a rape and murder spree that "you can do what you like to women these days noone says nothing".

It all needs addressing.

Terrific also to read in the Guardian today that male nurses caught watching child and rape porn were let off and CONTINUE to work in children's wards whilst committees and quangos faff about deciding if watching such stuff and working with kids is 'wrong'. Seriously. Wtf is going on.

Alison,

Hi, yes again I agree with you re. that horrific *film*. I didnt realise it was as popular as you are saying. That is truly horrifying and as you say, desensitising.

Back to reality: two young men, who really were flesh and bllodd to their familes and friends. London is harbour to something not unlike Jack the Ripper until this person (or persons is apprehended.

I thought it media hyperbole that this was an *horrific crime scene* at the out set. I now plainly see that *horrific* is an understatement.

But, no matter how horrific the crime, the punishment cannot match the magnitute of the crime, otherwise we are into judicially sanctioned multiple stabbing.

As an unapologetic liberal, I want the perp(s) caught and put where they can do no-one any harm - no less than anyone else.

I'd be happy to see the death penalty reinstated as a message to any other would be's out there. I do not wish to see the criminals, when caught, put, as they inevitably will be, into the equivalent of bed and breakfast for life with free access to Sky and porn to cosy up their human rights. That is not my idea of justice. If facts, evidence and jury proves unequivocably that they or he or she murdered in such a fashion and modern day tools allows that certainty, then they should swing. I really don't care if that position is left right up or down. But in serious cases such as these where they are clearly twisted individuals there is no reason to rehabilitate, B&B them or make them feel comfortable. The public are due protection and clear messages should be sent to such twisted criminals. The same goes for repeat offenders of serious sexual crime. Or at least cut their dicks off,

I would not see that film. I don't understand why anyone would see it.

--

Now, allow me the privilege of hijacking this thread. Jo, lets you and I have a little talk. Its just you and me, so speak in your own words.

Like many of us, including me, you have had your share of fights on the various blogs. But yours have been at an entirely different level. Your fight with United Irelander was memorable in its vitriol..then it went away.

You had your own blog, which was damned good at times, which was shut down quickly, under mysterious circumstances.

But your relationship with David Vance and ATW really sticks out. I'm amazed to see you on these pages.

Over a sustained period of time, you have stalked Mr. Vance, here and on other sites ( some of which had to tell you repeatedly to stop it ) and you have accused him, in language very mindful of the libel laws, of being involved in some terrible things.

Can you please tell me, in straight language,

-- Can you say in a few words why your blog was shut down?

-- Why did you harass David for such a protracted period of time, and do you take back any of the things that you said, including threats to rat him out to various government organizations I believe?

I don't think that I am the only one who is wondering these things. I'm not trying to start a flareup here, only looking for a straight answer from you and you alone.

Be sure that the perps of this barbarous crime were high on drugs at the time. And be equally sure that this will be pleaded in their defence and will probably get them a reduced "sentence". If the recommended minimum term exceeds 20 years it will be amazing.

Phantom, the Grand Inquisitor
ducking stools at the ready ..lol

I'm very easily satisfied. I only seek the facts.

If everyone else is thinking about the elephant in the room, I might as well point out that he's in here!!

Are you sure you're not playing out some scene from the phantom of the opera?

Lets see what the response is.

well I don't speak for jo, and you don't speak for DV
That's a clear boundary, which I'd suggest ought not to be crossed. There's your answer.

No it is not, unless you are indeed speaking for Jo.

I'm not asking on behalf of David. I'm asking on behalf of myself. I am genuinely curious--there have been some astonishing posts/comments over the past couple of years.

I'm addressing Jo ( and her alone--see my 6:57 comment. You've made three comments since then, to her nil. ). She can speak for herself, and I hereby invite her to do so.

These are important questions that should be answered directly. She has the floor.

Jo, please respond.

How about prison for life with no Plasma televisions, or at least no DVD's of The Great Escape?

There's nothing they can do to these unspeakable neanderthals that will bring back these boys. The grief their parents are going through is unimaginable. Personally I agree with anyone who suggests let the bastards hang. Prison is too good for them, or maybe send them to prison for a few years on the clear understanding that on a certain day, at a certain time, they die.

I read about this awful crime, it shocked me to the bone. It also puzzles me; I can't make sense of it no matter how I try to look at it.

Now, (as we all know by now), someone has turned themselves in to the police and has been treated for burns. A very unexpected development.

I think that maybe the answer/motive could lie in what was discovered on the hard drive of the stolen laptop.

Let's hope that this case is resolved speedily.