David: So the election of a mainstream candidate will alter the nation's work ethic? No.

Don't Americans pay tax too? I read in Mark Steyn's book, that its American taxes which pay for the war. The taxes in Europe aren't doing that - they're used for other purposes, but its the Americans who are financing this war on terror.

What happened to give me your weak your tired and your hungry and all that crap ?

Typhoo: Yes we pay taxes.

The wretched refuse of your teeming shores? Poor Emma Lazarus wasn't the greatest poet, her point however was the idea of an invitation to those who wanted to seek work, opportunity, freedoms, and a new chance in the New World.

"Typhoo: Yes we pay taxes."

And mahons, do you agree with Steyn that it is mainly American taxes which is paying for the global war on terror? Do you think its the Americans who are carrying the burden and if so is it good expenditure of your tax dollars? At least in Europe it's European citizens who are benefiting mainly, although I'm no advocate of high taxes anywhere, but as a point of principle if I have to pay them, I'd like to see a little benefit from them somewhere rather than carrying the burden of this global war on terror.

And while I agree that socialism can be a sickness, I could never support rampant unfettered capitalism. State welfare is in america too, and one coach driver or those in the service industry on a holiday island are hardly indictative of a work ethic superior to the British. I've always found that same work ethic in the British service industry from Jersey to the Shetlands, and I think its wrong to put down your own nation, belittle it, and say that another is better, especially when you haven't lived there and been part of their system.

There is a core of people in Britain and if they aren't bashing it they'd have too much time on their hands, and I'm sick to death of it.

These islands are the best on God's good earth, and if you don't like us, or living here, well the world is your oyster.

Well said Typhoo,

I'm sick too death of it as well. The VAST majority of UK citizens are working (and working hard) to give us the freedom and benefits we enjoy.
There are problems (as there are in any society) but the advantages by far outweigh them.

Well said Mahons. Clinton is not a socialist, unless you use Troll's definition (anyone to his left). I'm no fan of hers, but if she's elected she'll bow to Wall Street nearly like a Republican. And there will be no effect on anyone's work ethic, except maybe her husband's.

Typhoo,

I find your last post a little confusing, - are you addressing David, or Mahons?

Secondly, just why is it wrong to - as you put it - 'to put down your own nation' - would that be David or Mahons? and just why is it wrong to be self-critical? - surely a person, or indeed a nation is all the better for little self examination...

As for your last paragraph, if anyone is unhappy with the status quo, then surely the answer is not to turn your back and 'do a runner', but to stay and try to remedy the situation. Your suggestion to 'go, and don't let the door hit your bum', is not really an answer to anyone who dare to offer criticism, especially to those who may have far more emotional investment in the UK than yourself...

Goodness knows, these once wonderful islands, (your words), have been allowed to deteriorate into something far from perfect, whether it will be at all possible to salvage anything worthwhile from the wreckage left by socialist welfarism, is a very moot point.

As for the differences in work ethic between various nations, anyone who has travelled, even minimally, must surely have noticed that there is such a difference, and that UK and Europe would not come too high on the list of hearty endeavour! - but then that is hardly surprising when you consider the history of Europe when compared with the USA, both are very different culturally and spiritually.

The industrial revolution here and slavery in the US, both left very different spiritual scars, - hardly surprising there is a cultural difference.

JM,

The freedom - to be constantly surveyed fron dawn to dusk.

The benefits of living in small cramped and scarce accommodation. The benefits of the poorest education system in any civilised country, the poorest health system in any civilised country, the poorest pension scheme of any European country, and the twin supreme benefits of having such a hardworking bureacracy that they have managed to lose the financial details of a majority of it's citizens, and a political junta that is so intellectually inept that they could well be labelled as retarded.

These aren't major imperfections, they are serious flaws...

And you are happy with all this? - you must be joking...

Ernest,

It's not perfect. I'm not suggesting for one minute that it is? If i won the Lottery tommorow would i still live in the UK? Probably not (not in Northern Ireland anyway), but surely its not THAT bad for the majority.
I don't think any country in the world is a perfect nirvana?

salvage anything worthwhile from the wreckage left by socialist welfarism

ernest, social welfarism is not responsible for the wreckage of the west. debt slavery and the devaluation of real wealth for most is responsible. government policy isnt the problem its the likes of the city of london (the real power in britian) and wall st (the real power in the US).

JM,

What I find so frustrating is that a majority are in agreement that we are just bumbling along from one catastrophe to another, any apparent success being more by luck than judgement. All the while the political climate is being manipulated - and not to the citizens benefit.

The politicians do not act in any sort of democratic fashion, rarely - if ever, fulfilling manifesto promises, and carrying on with what to all intents and purposes is a 'hidden agenda', the EU pantomime being but one example.

And yet we collecively shrug our shoulders and accept what we are given, behaviour which has frequently been described as bovine.

Do things, by which I mean our quality of life and culture, really have to be totally destroyed before anyone stands up to the statist cabal that we call a government?

Daytripper: "debt slavery and the devaluation of real wealth for most is responsible"

"debt slavery?"

.....You mean the price a person pays when they buy money? Commonly known as "interest" on a loan? How is this responsible for anything other than allowing those who need money access to said money?

Allowing those without savings or inheritance to buy large items like cars , homes, businesses etc. This is not slavery! This is freedom.

"Devaluation of real wealth?" What are you talking about?

Ernest I wasn't directing any particular point to anyone merely stating them.

"especially to those who may have far more emotional investment in the UK than yourself..."

It's great that you are a super Brit, by all means continue, I shall not be challenging your status. My emotional investment as you call it, lies in Ireland north and south, unfortunately the north is part of
Britain. I've huge emotional and other interests in this part of Britain but do tell us how you have more.

"As for the differences in work ethic between various nations, anyone who has travelled, even minimally, must surely have noticed that there is such a difference"

I'm as well travelled as the next. For example I noticed two years ago the majority of the staff in a NY hotel were recent immigrants. The chamber maids couldn't speak much English. What I've seen in Britain is mirrored elsewhere. There are jobs Americans won't do either, it's hardly an ideal society without welfare problems.

"surely a person, or indeed a nation is all the better for little self examination..."

Self examination is completely different to being critical to the point of destruction. I believe some in Britain have taken it a little too far.

"As for your last paragraph, if anyone is unhappy with the status quo, then surely the answer is not to turn your back and 'do a runner', but to stay and try to remedy the situation"

Aren't you over visiting your grandchildren in America Ernest? Did your family find it better to cut and run instead of staying and putting things right?

Lets face it the young arent staying are they? Perhaps the criticism of Britain by all and sundry rubbed off and they decided it was better to cut and run and start fresh somewhere else.
Perhaps opportunities came along. What ever the reason not everybody decides to stay and fight to right the wrongs of their own country. If they did we wouldn't have an immigration problem would we?

"The benefits of living in small cramped and scarce accommodation. The benefits of the poorest education system in any civilised country, the poorest health system in any civilised country, the poorest pension scheme of any European country, and the twin supreme benefits of having such a hardworking bureacracy that they have managed to lose the financial details of a majority of it's citizens, and a political junta that is so intellectually inept that they could well be labelled as retarded."

And a lot of this could be said of the United States too.
Wasn't it an American company that lost some of the data?

There are no jobs which Britons and Americans won't do. After all, before some illegal migrant came over uninvited and a cost-cutting employer got rid of a legitimate worker and gave the job to that low-cost illegal, somebody must have been doing that job and at a reasonable rate too.
The solution is quite simple: jail the employer who gives jobs to illegals. If it's in the state sector, jail the managers. That way, the illegals will self-deport because there's no work for them, and legitimate workers will do the work just as they did before this open-door immigration policy was imposed by corporatists in the US and no-nation leftists in the UK/Europe. The work ethic is still in the working class: it's the work which isn't there at the moment. 500,000 jobs taken from Britons and given to east Europeans. I can only believe that the figures for Americans viz-a-viz Mexicans are worse.

Allowing those without savings or inheritance to buy large items like cars , homes, businesses etc. This is not slavery! This is freedom.

sub prime loan=freedom? funny how the poorest always get shafted. with rates of up to 12% no less.

"Devaluation of real wealth?" What are you talking about?

the real buying power of money is constantly falling. no wonder the boomers say the olden days were so good. they are right, their money was actually worth something.

open-door immigration policy was imposed by corporatists in the US and no-nation leftists in the UK/Europe.

the bankers are the true internationalists allan.

Typhoo: Sorry to get back to you so late, the perils of time differences and in my case sleep deprivation.

Yes, I think we (in the U.S.) have funded a disproportionate share of the civilized world's burdens (be it standing up to communism, international terrorism or what have you. But it is likelya natural consequence of leadership (albeit not always sensible).

Daytripper: "the poorest always get shafted. with rates of up to 12% no less."

High interest rates reflect high risk. Afterall, bankers would be out of business fairly quickly -- in a free market -- if borrowers didn't pay back the money they were lent.

"the real buying power of money is constantly falling."

If this were the case, money would be worthless! And you wouldn't be able to complain about high interest rates, because they would mean nothing!

>>before some illegal migrant came over ..somebody must have been doing that job and at a reasonable rate too.<<

Not necessarily.

But you will admit it's curious at least that you're arguing against the free market and defending state intervention in the economy - and all that in a thread with the heading THE SICKNESS OF SOCIALISM !

Tripper and Patty, I've read that sub-prime home loans in the US account for 10% of total loans, but 50% of total forclosures! Who'd a thunk it?!

Charles in Texas: 50% of all foreclosures?!?! Mio Dio! Banking heads, and heads of households will roll over this one.. unless of course our tax dollars are used to prop up this ill-advised business model.

Typhoo,

"It's great that you are a super Brit, by all means continue, I shall not be challenging your status."

followed closely by:

"I've huge emotional and other interests in this part of Britain but do tell us how you have more."

I made no claim to being a 'super Brit', in fact that is the last thing I would wish to be, - but I have always expected to 'pay my dues' as far as national loyalty is concerned, as I am sure you do.

That you then follow your bit about not challenging my status as such, by then doing just that, by asking how I feel I have more emotional interest than yourself!...it is of no consequence, other than being amusing.

However, having been around for a substantially longer time than most here, it is highly likely that I have been emotionally involved for much longer, but then, - how do you define 'emotional interest'?

If you mean having lost close relatives in what, as it now turns out, was a totally pointless war, or having served in the supposed defence of this 'once great country', and losing further close friends and relatives, in yet another pointless confrontation, then, yes, then I am emotionally involved, but only more so than some - but not all - of today's current inhabitants of the UK, there are many who are living with severe physical injuries, as well as an 'emotional interest'. Pardon me for assuming you are a lot younger than myself...

I obviously wrongly concluded that anyone who had lost close relatives in the past, would be slightly more critical of current outcomes and developments in the UK, - the way things are now would hardly seem a good reason to sacrifice one's life for.

Earlier this year I was asked to write up some interviews with veterans of past conflicts, dating back as far as WWI, up to, and including the Falklands. There were some twenty interviews, most taken over several days, without exception when asked how they felt about their experiences, the replies were along the lines of; "If I knew then what I know now, I would never have joined", or "I have a feeling of a deep betrayal".

All of these folk were ordinary people, doing what they took 'to be their duty', none felt the loss of several generations had been worth the end result.

After much thought, I could only see such remarks, not as a condemnation of the interviewees, but as the most serious indictment of our politicians, of all shades.

Yes, I am in the US at the moment visiting my Grandchildren, how kind of you to use such personal info to make a point. I also have many Grandchildren in the UK. The reason for having US grandchildren is rather more than just a move to where the grass is greener, - our eldest Granddaughter has Down's syndrome, and the current and future prospects for her here in the UK were about as dismal as anything Dickens may have dreamed of.

My son first looked to Australia, New Zealand and Canada as places where she might receive worthwhile treatment. All refused her, and them, as a family entry, because of her differences,

The wonderful USA was the only one that had no qualms about her, and they had several letters from strangers, assuring them that they had made the right decision, and that the USA was the best place to find the most enlightened treatments.

No question of 'cutting and running' here.

As they say, "Needs must when the Devil drives!"

Re the data loss; sure it was an American country that lost data, but only a small amount compared to the huge amount of data held, and lost by our own bunch of incompetent layabouts...and they did take the loss seriously, - unlike our bunch of 'happy-go-lucky' parasites.

" especially to those who may have far more emotional investment in the UK than yourself... "

Ernest you brought up the subject of emotional interest in Britain I assume. The remarks about super brit...quite frankly I'm a British citizen by default. I don't want to be a British citizen but the majority of the people where I live insist the place is British - therefore that is how it is to be. If that were not the case I wouldn't really care tuppence other than a passing interest in our neighbour accross the sea.
I'm sorry your eldest moved for those reasons - we were a little luckier in that things were not that bad when our child was small, and recently have been able to pay to lift her out of the NHS. My own son moved abroad- financial reasons-but no less difficult for a young family to go. I'm sorry you interpeted my mention of your visit in a negative way and if I caused offence I truly apologise that was not my intent.

As to looking back I can fully understand that.But I'm sure there are American ex forces who would say the same.

Getting back on topic I still don't see America as a superior in work ethic or as a nation to the British or Irish. And (please don't interpet this personally) America is hardly an ideal society with indiscriminate fire in shopping mals and colleges, with a host of other ills too. No society is free of its fair share of problems.

I know where you're coming from as to how these islands have degenerated. But I place that fairly and squarely on immigration and not welfarism par se. The republic of Ireland is heading for huge trouble, it's only a matter of time before it becomes much worse than the UK or France. One woman on television who was interviewed said it was the native Irish who were a burden because all the jobs are taken. She's right, and its the same in Britain. There are cases where it does not make economic sense for someone with a family to work because the wages are so low, driven down by the import of cheap labour from Eastern Europe and Africa.

Again, and I'm at the risk of repeating myself I know, I still don't think the indigenous populations of these islands are lazy or idle by choice alone. An underclass has been created, but until circumstances change and it becomes economically viable for them to work things will stay the same. Conditions won't be improved until immigration is sorted out.

As to the political class in Britain - well America has its fair share of dunces and incompetents I'm sure as they have in the Irish republic.

But I'd never run down the Irish republic - and I don't live there, but accross the border in N Ireland- this is my country, and as the old rebel song says I would like to speak of it with pride. this is my homeland and that is how I feel and do find it hard to understand a lot of the bashing of Britain that Brits do. But that is their perogrative, I personally like the place and its people.

Typhoo

I agree with you, there is a tendency for many Right wing leaning commenters here to make sweeping negative comments about the UK, Ireland and or Europe in general in ways that would be met with fierce accusatins of 'knee jerk anti-Americanism' if uttered about the USA. They aslo have the cheek to sneer about the left 'hating their own country' but frequently demonstrate that they can outdo the left in the stakes of self-loathing.

The UK has it's problems but it is not a sinking socialist pit taked to breaking point. That is rubbish, if truth be told, economically at least, most of us have never had it so good (and yes I know the history of that quote, but today it has substance) and in terms of social and mobile opportunities we live a life that previous generations would be amazed by. The unpatriotic loathers of the Right should acknowledge that before engaging in their ritual bashing of life this side of the Atlantic.

Typhoo and Colm,

I totally agree that nowhere is perfect, but some are less perfect than others, and one of them is UK. Come on - both of you know the shortcomings here are largely the result of dogmatic political decisions, on both sides of the aisle. Our politicians really just do not care!

As my tale of the vets demonstrated - albeit in a roundabout way, - we all want to be proud of our countries, and to feel otherwise gives rise to that inevitable sense of betrayal. The population puts in the spade work, and the politicians squander the fruits of that labour.

There is no more vicious a person than a lover scorned, and that goes for voters too!...

The betrayal goes beyond the betrayal of our Forces, the working class - from which the socialists have made much political capital, have also been betrayed, or 'well and truly shafted' by our politicians.

As it is their duty and obligation to provide a secure environment in which to live, it is also their duty to facilitate all those other things for which we voted them into power. One of which is to provide an environment which encourages the creation of jobs, they have failed miserably to do that for their own people, preferring to make jobs for immigrants.

Working class folk need work - it's what they do best! they also have the right to have an environment which encouraged the old ethic of Labour - 'A fair day's pay for a fair day's work', good grief, - that used to be their motto...and no, I am not espousing the formation of legions of non-jobs, but the sort of jobs which enable folk to feel proud of their efforts.

A vote for Hillary is a vote for complete government control of all aspects of our lives

A vote for Hillary is a vote for complete government control of all aspects of our lives

LOL! What about the Patriot Act? Was that Hillary or Dubya checking on what books get borrowed in public libraries?

"this is my country, and as the old rebel song says I would like to speak of it with pride"

I hear you, Typhoo. I feel the same way about So. Cal. and the USA.
Far better to address specific gripes than to critique with a hyperbolic broad brush.

Patty,

We used to highlight specific gripes, and just got ignored. being specfic makes it so much easier to 'them', to divide the opposition, and to dismiss their complaints.

I am sure you have heard that old saying that repeatedly doing the same thing is a sign of madness. We have long reached - and passed that stage...

"I totally agree that nowhere is perfect, but some are less perfect than others, and one of them is UK."

Ernest one of them. Let me tell you about a little town in Ireland called Ballyhaunis in Ennis. It has now a population of four and a half thousand people which include twenty different languages. I watched a programme not so long ago with an interview in Dublin of a China man who came to Dublin in 2000. He began by opening up a business in Moore St and his plans are now to 'buy Parnell Street' and turn it into China town, because in his opinion there are at least one hundred thousand Chinese people in the republic which he says is now the biggest collection of chinese people in Europe outside of China.

Those are a few specifics. We can talk about more specifics. How one person interviewed said that Ireland is now no more than an industrial estate, and all of this in a country where a decade ago immigration was unheard of. According to the same programme it won't belong before some one steps forward wraps themselves in the Irish tricolour and stands as a candidate for the indigenous Irish.

There are huge problems coming Irelands way. They don't see it. You see Ireland is going to succeed where everybody else didn't, not for them the failed assimilation of France, nor the failed multi culturalism of the UK - no they are going to 'integrate'. Yet already it can be seen people are coming into the country to work among and live among their own and speak their own language. How's that for incompetence, and all of it while the Irish PM says at a tribunal to look into his finances that he more or less kept his money in a suitcase and never had a bank account.

I don't need to tell you about the bumbling fools at Stormont, its well documented here.

I agree with all you say, our peoples have been betrayed. But I'm not going to help them by putting down the country and accepting everything they do. They have taken away for many the dignity of work, our culture is all but gone I refuse to allow them to take away any sense of national pride too.

Typhoo,

But is your pride based on 'what once was', - or what is now?'

I too am proud of 'what once was', but isn't that now considered to be a bad, - almost an evil, sentiment?

Like that hypothetical pretty little village by the sea, that everyone loved so much, that everyone wanted to live there. When they all got their wish and eventually moved there, the village and all that was so wonderful about it was changed, and - surprise, surprise, it began to look just like the places all those 'incomers' had moved from.

And that is mistakenly called 'progress'...

"I too am proud of 'what once was', but isn't that now considered to be a bad, - almost an evil, sentiment?"

Ernest your people had an empire, and with the collapse of the empire are now seen as the 'post colonial power'. And that is really really bad today. If anyone is seen as bad today its the host communities in post colonial powers. Like France, Germany and the UK.

This is what I don't understand. Ireland doesn't fit that model, yet what is happening in the post colonial powers is happening there too.
Looking back over Irelands history, isn't the same as looking back over the history of the post colonial powers - it's a very different history altogether.

Are the Irish dogedly following in the foot steps of the others? Or was it a western society to target where immigration could begin with a clean slate. Or is it a symptom of being in the EU. So how to explain it?

What ever the reason, I hope we don't go down the road of the others without a fight.

>>before some illegal migrant came over ..somebody must have been doing that job and at a reasonable rate too.<<

Not necessarily.

But you will admit it's curious at least that you're arguing against the free market and defending state intervention in the economy - and all that in a thread with the heading THE SICKNESS OF SOCIALISM !

Saturday, December 29, 2007 at 04:05PM | NOEL CUNNINGHAM

Noel, I am arguing for borders and policing of those borders. Jobs within a country should be made available firstly for those who are of that country and not for any immigrant to wander in and be allowed to take the jobs for the nationals.

Typhoo,

I see your point, but I don't think it has anything to do with 'colonialism' per se, perhaps some sort of 'inner envy' for the most successful among us, and they see this destructive behaviour as a means of 'getting back' at those uber riche, even to the point of self-destruction.

Reading that last para, it sounds more like a description of communism than anything else. Perhaps the rotten apple in the barrel has had a more significant effect than anyone realised.

Certainly in the UK it seems that the egalitarian goal is to lower all to a minimum level, rather than to elevate the less fortunate. Whether it be in the field of education, culture, or quality of life.

Our Leaders have obviously not learned the lesson that making the rich poorer, does not make the poor wealthier.

I don't think America can correctly be called a colonial, or even a post-colonial power, although I am sure that there are many prepared to argue that point, and the same trend is apparent there, and is it really immigration that is causing this lack of pride in one's country and culture?

At the end of the day, I take pride, but no credit for what 'once was', and I refuse to take pride in, or any blame for 'what now is'...for too long we have been politically disenfranchised for us, as a nation to take the blame for the mistakes of our politicians.

Wishing you, and yours a Happy New Year!

Thank you Ernest,

and the same to you and your family.

Once you have a system where people are happy to be bus drivers the next step is hundreds of thousands in the army looking to get a chance, 2 million in prison and 40 million without any health insurance.

Garfield: "Once you have a system where people are happy to be bus drivers"

Do you work? How can you turn your nose up at bus drivers? I don't get this. It's good, honest, hard work. Nothing to scoff at.

Of course I work Patty, I was just brought up to aspire to be more than a bus driver.

My father worked 6 days a week for all his life but was never happy with his station in life and instilled a sense of ambition in us.

If you are happy with your children being bus drivers when they have the opportunity to be so much more then yes I do scoff.

Garfield,

Opportunity and overweaning ambition do not always equate to ability. A prime example is our present crop of politicians, all had the opportunity, but few have the ability - as has been proven to our national discomfort.

One of our current problems is that far too many, in our egalitarian society have been led to be unrealistically over-ambitious. While it is good to have a dream, it does have to be based in reality if it has any hope of being fulfilled...

With the current state of the education system, even a bus driving job is beyond many...

Ernest,
I assume you believe yourself to have the necessary ability.

If you don't invest in your education system and allow people who believe they have the necessary ability to give their all to realise it then such a society will eventually fall.

While the British like to see their students borrow to learn and the Americans like to see the parents pay, Ireland's education system is free, including university.

Which system is better, the American, British or the Irish one?

Which system is closest to being egilatarian?

egalitarian even.

So Patty,
would you be happy for your children to be bus drivers? Y

Scoff away,then Garfield. The only real problem with driving a bus is that it doesn't pay as well as, say, being a super model. But except for the monetary awards, I don't see how it's a lower "station in life" than any other honest bit of work.

But then I never did get the "landed gentry" - too good for work - thing, anyway.

Garfield: Ireland has "free" education?

Think, man, think....someone is paying. The taxpayer is paying! You - if you work - are paying! It's just that you are paying for the rest of your taxable working life , and without any free choice in the matter.

"would you be happy for your children to be bus drivers? "

Huh...yeah, I would. What's wrong with being a bus driver?

I don't approve of anything illegal, anything like porn, or men living off women when they can work...in other words, being lazy. I don't approve of welfare, or begging or busking in subways and generally making a pest of yourself...but honest work is honest work.

I think you're hung up on some antiquated class thing. Noblesse oblige.

Patty,
I do have a choice. I can vote to change the system. I don't want to and am quite happy with how things are in Ireland.

Your tax dollars are being used to make bombs and my tax euros are being used to educate my country's children.

But hey, at least you get to hang a flag outside your house and say that you're paying for bombs so that that my country's children have the freedom to be educated.

As for class, I'm not hung up on class at all. After the UK, the United States is probably the most class ridden place in the world.

You are too happy with your lot for my liking, a classic sympthom of a class-ridden society.

By the way, porn, men living off women, laziness etc aren't illegal and are endemic in the United States.

And you have a constitutional right in Ireland to beg.

Different worlds, different continents. So similar yet so different.

But you are locking more and more people up and we are sending more and more people to university.

I'm not going to engage in a spitting contest with you, Garfield. Good on you for your ambition.

I don't think that it's right to disdain honest work; it reeks of a class system, not ambition, to me. But if you find that it motivates you, go for it.

I know quite a few Irish here in Los Angeles and none are on welfare, or begging, or doing porn or such things - they are all working their backsides off. Most, in fact, are quite successful. And I can't imagine any of them looking down their noses at a bus driver just because he/she drives a bus!

As to my tax dollars going into the making of bombs - I consider national defense one of the few areas worthy of my tax dollars.

Patty,

I think, with the financial situation in Eire sinking even faster than in the UK, our friend Garfield, may well be in for a taste of reality, especially when all those euro grants dry up. Similarly with Spain...but then I feel sure he will be quite content to fall back on the generous welfare system, as lowly honest endeavour does not seem to have much of a place in his delusion that life is even remotely fair and there may be a time when even he has to get his hands a little dirty. - I wonder if he has, or could even get a bus drivers licence?

No offence intended there, but needs must when the Devil drives, and he sure seems to be in the driving seast at the moment...

Garfield

When Ireland copied the high tax high spend polices of Europe in the 80s we had mass emmigration. My sister lives in the USA where she is earning a huge salary. But in the Ireland of the 80s she couldn't even get a job.

Since we followed the US pro-enterprise policies we have never looked back and now thousands come to Ireland looking for work.

No, we don't spend on defence. Because we live like the rest of Europe under the protection of the United States.

And many thousands of us work for US companies in Ireland.