THE UNCOMFORTABLE TRUTHS...
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 at 09:09AM Like some others, I have listened to the blabbering of many mainstream journalists in recent days in a state of stunned disbelief. Their commentary as to what is happening here in Northern Ireland is surreal - entirely detached from on-the-ground reality.
Permit me to state a few of the uncomfortable truths they dare not.
1. Contrary to what is being stated, the Irish republican terrorists who have murdered in Antrim and Craigavon DO enjoy significant support in certain areas. This may not have resulted in political support (yet) but they don't care about that! They are sheltered, they are protected - they get away with bloody murder and their neighbours stay quiet. Just like they stayed quiet when IRA killers were active. Nothing is different.
2. There are MORE than just a handful of "dissident" republican terrorists. This is a fantasy being peddled to accommodate IRA/Sinn Fein sensitivities. I agree with those who estimate that there may be more than a hundred of these republican terrorists at large. If that seems a small number, ask yourself how many Provisional IRA members were active in 1969? From small acorns toxic oaks grow.
3. When the political class and their media handlers talk about this being an attack on the "peace process" what they all mean is that they could de-stabilise the gravy train which has so richly rewarded politicians and terrorists. Remember when all those CONVICTED terrorists walked free from prison and we were told that this was the price to be paid for peace? Tell it to the next of kin of those slaughtered on the streets of Northern Ireland during the past 72 hours.
4. Sinn Fein/IRA have got away with murder, so to speak, in recent days. The REASON they struggled to issue a statement on the murder of the two young British soldiers is because they KNOW that their host community hates the Army. It's that simple. There is NO difference between the execution of the soldiers in Antrim and the hundreds of murders the IRA carried out against the British Army in previous years. The only substantive point is that Sinn Fein/IRA believe that they alone have the right to be judge, jury and executioner. Hence their outrage that this is being assumed by others.
5. The DUP, like the Ulster Unionists, have tried to flog the dead horse that Northern Ireland is a better place today because they have accepted sharing power with Irish Republican terrorists. It got them off the streets, as it were. Well, now some of them are in government and some are still killing on the streets. The degree to which our society has been debased is manifest in the reality that the POLICING BOARD of Northern Ireland has a convicted IRA bomber on it, representing Sinn Fein.
Deeper and deeper into Dante's hell - whistling peace, perfect peace....
Northern Ireland 
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Reader Comments (168)
If anybody thought the IRA destroyed its weapons they had to be in cuckoo land. The IRA want to bring back the violence, the transition to NI being part of Eire is for them too slow. Maybe distraction is wanted for the Irish people because of the recession after years of relative riches.
Maybe distraction is wanted for the Irish people because of the recession after years of relative riches.
Maggie, do you really feel that now is an appropriate time for that kind of comment. Comments like that are for the morons on either side of the divide of this problem who hold such pathetic, outdated and in the end dangerous prejudices.
The republican bigots of Craigavon and Lurgan should be the first to have their entire communities ransacked and searched inch by inch until all CIRA members and their supporters are finished off there. Such action would also be a warning to the rest of the republicans that they will not be able to sleep for even a second if they are harbouring murderers.
James H,
They know where they are, but they don;t want to upset the IRA be going after them. Craigavon/Lurgan is a real cess-pit and has been so for years.
David your comments are spot on.
The anger felt in the true unionist community is immense
The years of listening to the resolution of the great paisley and his side kicks have made this situation even more pathetic.If they had even an oz of decency they would not have opened the door to ira in gvt.
WE do not support this peace process -what is it anyway- a way to lever us into a united ireland -which we will certainly oppose.
One question to you what was all the years of Pailsey`s rating for--would sunningdale have the best option considering the present joke of stormont
Ps dianne duds from the dupes wants to unite unionism by splitting the vote good eh -hope she will be trounced at the polls
couldn't agree with you more david.. spot on..
'The republican bigots of Craigavon and Lurgan should be the first to have their entire communities ransacked and searched inch by inch until all CIRA members and their supporters are finished off there.'
Pot. Kettle. Black.
What about those republicans in Craigavon and Lurgan who are totally disgusted and outraged by these dispicable murders? The vast, VAST, majority of people, Catholic, Protestant, Republican, Loyalist, Nationalist and Unionist are sickened by, and have totally condemned the events of the past few days. Anyone with information should pass it on to the authorities and stop this before it gets much, much worse. Making sweeping statements like the one above will not help, James H, they will only add fuel to the fire. All right thinking people need to stand together now, and show these degenerates that they won't and can't win. We need to show a united, not a divided, front. Think of the families of all the victims. They are the ones who need support right now.
'If anybody thought the IRA destroyed its weapons they had to be in cuckoo land. The IRA want to bring back the violence, the transition to NI being part of Eire is for them too slow. Maybe distraction is wanted for the Irish people because of the recession after years of relative riches.'
Maggie, this is a ridiculous statement, however, I'm sure you can prove me wrong by providing concrete evidence, links etc.
The proof of the pudding will be if the murderers are caught, because they will only be caught if information comes from their communities. But the pro-dissident grafitti indicates a significant degree of dissident support in the old Provo heartlands, and particularly in the Lurgan area where shots have been fired at the police during orchestrated riots.
My guess is that no convictions will be achieved. I hope I'm wrong.
Seimi,
Any thoughts on why all those decent republicans in Lurgan have kept quiet concerning the IRA assassins of Constables Graham and Johnston?
Just wondering....or maybe they deserved a bullet in the head?
'But the pro-dissident grafitti indicates a significant degree of dissident support in the old Provo heartlands'
No it doesn't; that's ridiculous. The dissident parties were overwhelmingly rejected by the people in all elections. The entire Republican community are behind Sinn Fein. That is obvious.
You seem to have a real hate for nationalists and are trying to dishonestly paint them as supportive of this, as if you want some type of retaliation. it is interesting to see that bigotry and hate is still not eradicated in northern Ireland, as the attacks yesterday and some of the reactions here demonstrate.
David writes.....'...This may not have resulted in political support (yet)..'
David McKittrick of the Independent has written yesterday that a Real IRA source has told him that they don't have a political wing as they don't believe that politics and a military campaign go together.
With a viewpoint like that, it is unlikely that the Real IRA will be seeking a political mandate, so Gerry and his mates of the IRA lite variety aren't likely to have any electoral fisticuffs with the Real thing.
Archie,
Yes - first the killing, then the political feting. That's the Provo model which some here squeal when we point it out.
David, you seem to be assuming that every single Republican in Lurgan knew who the killer/s were. This sad little part of the island of Ireland has an even sadder history of 'closed communities', where the price for informing was death. Also, the Republican/Nationalist community had no faith in the RUC/PSNI, and for well documented reasons. Under these circumstances, it is no real surprise that people didn't come forward with information. The same can be said of the Unionist/Loyalist side.
And in answer to your question - no, they didn't deserve a bullet in the head. How could you 'just wonder'? I consistently condemn all murder when I'm here David. Can you say the same? Just wondering. Especially when you allow people like McCann and Troll to blog on your site...
I have to say this from someone who lives in a Republican Heartland. You do get that graffitti on a lot of walls. It isn't an indication of mass support for Dissident Republicans. It is an indication of a number of teenagers with nothing better to do with their time.
Archie, while the relationship between the 32CSM and the RIRA is similar to the relationship between the UDP and the UPRG, Dissident Republicans did stand for election in 2007. Members of Republican Sinn Féin stood, as did members of the Irish Republican Socialist Party. They were trounced.
There isn't any widespread support for the RIRA and as long as the Security Forces don't go in heavy handed, like James wants them to, then there won't ever be any widespread support for the RIRA.
>>the Irish republican terrorists who have murdered in Antrim and Craigavon DO enjoy significant support in certain areas.<<
Don't believe that. Depends of course on what you mean by "significant". They certainly do not have the support necessary to carry out a campaign.
>>Sinn Fein/IRA ..KNOW that their host community hates the Army.<<
Perhaps, but they also know the host community supports Sinn Fein; not the so-called dissidents, and that's the reason why these dissidents will never be able to pose a sustained threat to anyone.
(well, one of the reasons. The others are that they are incompetent, riddled with spies and touts, are politically marginalised and haven't got the contacts - at home or abroad - necessary for any kind of campaign.
>>when all those CONVICTED terrorists walked free from prison and we were told that this was the price to be paid for peace? Tell it to the next of kin of those slaughtered <<
David, a sign that there is no peace is when things like this happen and it doesn't cause much of a stir at all.
As it is, they have been making headline news around the world. (and about 10 posts on ATW)
You have peace. A few bastards with guns do not a war make.
Screw the IRA, Adams and McGuiness and the rest of them, the lives of British soldiers, policemen and civilians is worth more than worrying about upsetting those scorpions.
"Screw the IRA, Adams and McGuiness and the rest of them, the lives of British soldiers, policemen and civilians is worth more than worrying about upsetting those scorpions."
James, the firm, overwhelming majority of Republicans don't support the Dissident Republicans. If the Security Forces go in heavy handed and where Republicans "have their entire communities ransacked and searched inch by inch" then that will change and things will go back to the way they used to be.
the firm, overwhelming majority of Republicans don't support the Dissident Republicans.
If that is correct then we can look forward to arrests and convictions.
We will see.
Suppose that the IRA achieves its aims by force (or rather, by craven surrender of the British establishment) and NI is incorporated into the RoI against the wishes of the majority. Do the people of the RoI not understand that they will be next to be subject to the will of the IRA? The IRA "won't go away, you know"!
Sinn Fein / IRA 'support' the forces of law and order allegedly but in reality the truth is much different. One has only to think back to the death of Paul Quinn in the Newry area. Conor Murphy, a convicted IRA terrorist and now a Minister of the Crown, where he sits controlling our roads infrastructuve amongst other things [like illegal IRA memorials all around the province] met the IRA and was 'assured that they had nothing to do with the murder of Paul Quin'....I wonder did this new-found 'democrat' pass on the gist of his conversations to the Gardai [as the murder took place in the Republic] or give the info to his 'new friends' in the PSNI, or perhaps pass the information via a priest or a solicitor [as they advise Republicans who still hate the Police, to do]. No ! Didn't think so....thought as much. Sinn Fein / IRA - Still unfit to be in a democratic Government. The mandate to govern is a legitimate as Hitler's was to govern Germany in the 1940s.
'Do the people of the RoI not understand that they will be next to be subject to the will of the IRA?'
I doubt it. The CIRA had a training base in Waterford a few years ago. They would run around the mountains in broad daylight dressed up in their khakis and holding machine guns. They were seen by local farmers, and it all came to a head when (seriously) the guys were firing their guns and a stray bullet went through a farmers toilet window, missing him by feet, when he was on the bowel taking a dump.
The local Guards went up the mountain and caught the guys dressed up with all weaponry, their defence? They said that they were out hunting.
I don't think that they will be able to usurp the government of the Irish Republic anytime soon.
Suppose that the IRA achieves its aims by force (or rather, by craven surrender of the British establishment) and NI is incorporated into the RoI against the wishes of the majority. Do the people of the RoI not understand that they will be next to be subject to the will of the IRA? The IRA "won't go away, you know"!
Eh.. the people of the ROI want nothing to do with the IRA/CIRA/PIRA/RIRA or any other IRA. They have made that clear time and time again.
The people of the ROI have made it extremely clear that it is the people of NI alone that will decide its future, and that its future will only be decided via political agreement.
True Blue,
what does your post have to do with any of this? The IRA didn't commit these murders. And Sinn Féin, like every other democratically elected party, has condemned them.
"Not much of a stir" Noel?
Mmm..wonder if the next of kin echo your sanguinity?
"The mandate to govern is a legitimate as Hitler's was to govern Germany in the 1940s."
Considering Hilter had a larger mandate to govern than any British Government since the war, I don't believe that is the point that you were trying to put accross.
Hitler's policies were evil and wicked but he was the legal Fuhrer of Germany. He did seize power illegally.
SEIMI.......Sinn Fein / IRA condemn the 'dissidents'...in other words, their former friends who they armed prior to fooling an old clergyman and a priest with Provo connections that they had 'disarmed'.....but in reality Sinn Fein/IRA haven't changed one iota. They had to give up the gun due to 9/11 in the USA and the worldwide distaste for their type of terrorism. So, with the help of their co-religionist Tony B[liar] and his Labour cronies they got concession after concession and a mockery of an election system that gives them a right to be in Government in an enforced coalition and no one can get rid of them. With 5 Ministers they believe that the best way to destabise Northern Ireland is from within, hence their anti-Britishness at every opportunity. Forcing Republican symbols on us whilst seeking to remove every vestige of Britishness that there is.
What should be remembered is this: Every dissident Republican was a Sinn Fein / IRA supporter and what they are doing is what Murphy, Adams, Kelly, Maskey, McGuinness, Gildernew and their cohorts believed in and practised. 'They haven't gone away you know', in the words of Grisly Adams.
Seamus....the point I'm making is that having a mandate to govern, as Sinn Fein claim is a legitimate as Hitler had. However, What Sinn Fein / IRA have is a mandate to be in the Assembly. With an electoral system that wasn't fixed to ensure a result, i.e. the enforced coalition, Sinn Fein/IRA would not have Ministers in the Executive. When we see what a mess they have made, in a normal Government they would have been dumped....the many mistakes that Gildernew has made at Agriculture, need I mention the Ruanator at Education, Garrrry Kelly at OFM/DFM [gloating over his shooting of a prison warder whilst escaping from the Maze]....then Marty the murderer and Murphy with his views on the murder by his mates of Paul Quinn. Do I need to go on???
TRUE BLUE.....It would appear you are 'hitting the nail on the head' with your comments. Seimi and Seamus are responding, so it would seem you have riled the Sinn Fein / IRA buffoons blogging whilst no doubt drawing their British dole money.....keep it up, the Provos need bashed at every opportunity.
True Blue, it's hard to know where to start with a response to what you wrote...
Whether you like it or not, Sinn Féin are a democratically elected party. They are the largest Nationalist party in the north, and have a mandate to serve the interests of their electorate. Those are the plain facts. Sorry if they don't sit well with you.
You are making assertions that Sinn Féin haven't changed 'one iota' - can you please explain this?
PIRA were well on their way to disarming well before 9/11 - do you honestly think otherwise? They were in negotiations with the British government for years.
As to 'the best way to destabise Northern Ireland is from within, hence their anti-Britishness at every opportunity', they are, as I pointed out, a democratically elected party, and hold an opposed view to other democratically elected parties. They are entitled to voice their electorates concern or unhappiness at any facet of local government. In fact, if they didn't do this, they would be deemed ineffective and would lose out at the next election. This is the same as all other parties. It's sometimes called a 'democracy'.
Try changing some words here:- 'they believe that the best way to destabise Northern Ireland is from within, hence their anti-Britishness at every opportunity. Forcing Republican symbols on us whilst seeking to remove every vestige of Britishness that there is.'
Now
'they believe that the best way to destabise Northern Ireland is from within, hence their anti-Irishness at every opportunity. Forcing British symbols on us whilst seeking to remove every vestige of Irishness that there is.'
Doesn't read too well does it?
However, to ask you the same question again - What has this got to do with anything?
blue
The assembly through its entire operation has alwaqys been fixed for result
the only thing to have changed is the expected result
union misrule is over deal with it
Well done Archie, you missed on all counts :)
True Blue
The peace process pre-dates by some distance 9/11 and proceeded as one would have expected. I knew in 1994 that the IRA would have to get rid of their weapons at some point.
So did every other reasonable observer of the scene.
Henry....Is that why you have 94 in your ID...???? If you knew in 1994 that the Provos had to get rid of their weapons, one presumes the terrorists also knew....why then did it take them another 14 years to get rid of them....some of them to their former friends, the 'dissidents', as we have seen since Saturday.
Noel
A few bastards with guns do not a war make
SFIRA bastards with bombs, guns, canisters of petrol wired to hotel windows, the physical mutilations of thousands of the innocent - DID NOT A WAR MAKE either!
There never was an Irish republican war. What SFIRA executed back then is no different to Saturday night in Antrim and last night in Craigavon . Cold blooded, premeditated and criminal - Irish republican TERRORISM. The so-called loyalist terrorists along with their supporters also share the same common attribute. Criminal Terrorists.
On a different tack: The learned advice coming from most of the talking heads on television, radio and the papers since Saturday to the people of Northern Ireland is a need to keep calm. The fear we are all feeling is recognisable according to them. Total nonsense of course. In my view the feelings of the vast majority is one of anger, disgust and the weariness of listening to prime ministers, politicians, interest groups, focus groups, committees, human rights fetishists and expert internet commentators. Just round up the terrorists in a field. And shoot the bastards.
Republican support for the police remains conditional. As long as the police do not "go in heavy-handed", i.e. search for evidence and make arrests, Republican support will continue.
Of course police action could be community-based, if the commmunity would fully support them. However on another blog a Republican blogger offered the view that Republicans had no need to support either the present "armed struggle" or provide information to the police.
So it's going to be eagle-eyed fence-sitting waiting to pounce on the police should they "step out of line".
There are many on this board who know far more than I about the reality of life on the ground in NI - both now and in the past - so if I am hopelessly wrong, then please excuse me.
Understandably there is considerable anger among loyalists at the activities of the CIRA/RIRA (I lose track of which particular bunch of murderers it is).
But I am not sure what the alternative is. The one thing we don't want is a return to the Troubles, I hope we can all agree on that.
Suggestions that you can just "round up all the terrorists and shoot them" ignore the reality that such methods have been tried in the past - and look where that got us.
And believe me, even if you wanted to, it isn't quite that easy.
The danger in all of this is to ascribe to this group more power and influence than it really has; doing that really will shatter this peace/nervous ceasefire - call it what you will.
A country torn by civil war has to reconcile itself to its past. You cannot simply carry those grievances forward with you, or else there will be no progress, no peace, no future.
All sides have to come together on this and find a way through - in their own ways. Of course Adams can't come out and use the language that people on here are demanding - let's live in the real world shall we? He draws his support from a constituency - and that support would evaporate over night were he to. He has a very fine line to tread. You may not like it, you may think it a travesty of justice, but it is reality.
I am no apologist for the IRA. I know too many people who have been killed by them, I have been to too many soldiers' funerals. But this division is exactly what these loathsome CIRA/RIRA murderers want. We seem to be playing into their hands.
>> and I will get off my pulpit ...<<
And now, if we turn to hymn number 363 ... Fight the good fight with all your might ...
Exactly right Jaz - people need to be united against these murderers. As said on another blog, people need to shout out - not in my name!
True Blue
Yes, the year of the ceasefire. The Henry part is from a Dylan song.
.why then did it take them another 14 years to get rid of them
Tactics. Why did it take the DUP so long to accept power sharing? Same reason.
I can't help but think, reading the postings here and over the last few days, that there are several here, not on the Nationalist or Republican side, who are actually ecstatic about the recent murders.
They proudly boast that they were right all along and look foreward to a return of one party rule and heavy handed policing.
It was bigotry that started the Troubles, it was bigotry that kept them going for so long, it was bigotry that delayed the changes agreed in the GFA and let hope bigotry does not triumph again.
This is a time for cool, calm heads.
....silence....the only sound being the nail being struck soundly on the head....
...The Uncomfortable Truths...indeed...
Are these terrorists now OTR, or are they in republican strongholds that many here don't want searched?
Charles,
It is more than highly likely that the names, addresses and phone numbers of the perpetrators of these despicable attacks are already in the hands of the security forces. These organisations have in the past been highly compromised and im sure this case is no different.
"It was bigotry that started the Troubles, it was bigotry that kept them going for so long, it was bigotry that delayed the changes agreed in the GFA and let hope bigotry does not triumph again.
This is a time for cool, calm heads."
Those might be the truest words ever seen on ATW.
Northern Ireland is on the brink- if we are not very careful. We all have a responsibility to take great care with our words these days.
Charles, can you point to one single post here that says the poster doesn't want a 'Republican stronghold' searched? Just one?
'Northern Ireland is on the brink- if we are not very careful.'
As anon said, this is time for cool heads. Northern Ireland is not on the brink of anything; that is just playing into their hands.
Seimi,\"
"James, the firm, overwhelming majority of Republicans don't support the Dissident Republicans. If the Security Forces go in heavy handed and where Republicans "have their entire communities ransacked and searched inch by inch" then that will change and things will go back to the way they used to be.
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 at 11:11AM | Seamus
I may have misunderstood Seamus, as an outsider.
>>Northern Ireland is on the brink- if we are not very careful. We all have a responsibility to take great care with our words these days.<<
Oh, Pinky, don't be so melodramatic. The only thing Northern Ireland is on the brink of is even more peace.
Nothing said or (in the case of Andrew and his anal fantasies) done on this site will make any difference, fortunately.
My opinion from the vantage point of the South (heh, heh) is that all sides must come out unequivocally in support of the PSNI. The process of returning policing powers to Ireland and of integrating the peelers further into nationalist communities must continue and be accelerated.
There is no need for an army in NI. A well-integrated and supported police force can do infinitely more to combat such killers than the best army and the most sophisticated equipment in the world.
'I may have misunderstood Seamus, as an outsider.'
You may, as an outsider, have misunderstood plain English? ;o)
The BBC helpfully nails the lie.
See
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7934408.stm