WHIPPED PONTIFF?
Monday, November 23, 2009 at 09:19PM I read that Pope John Paul 11, who died five years ago, who is being considered for sainthood by the Roman Catholic Church, whipped himself.
As part of the Vatican's investigation thousands of documents have been collected and examined by officials from the Congregation for the Causes of Saints.
Among them is the testimony of Tobiana Sobodka, a Polish nun of the Sacred Heart of Jesus order, who worked for Pope John Paul in his private Vatican apartments and at his summer residence in Castel Gandolfo near Rome.
Sister Sobodka said: "Several times he (Pope John Paul) would put himself through bodily penance. "We would hear it – we were in the next room at Castel Gandolfo. You could hear the sound of the blows when he flagellate himself. He did it when he was still capable of moving on his own." The flagellation is also confirmed by another bishop who has given testimony. Emery Kabongo was a secretary for Pope John Paul. "He would punish himself and in particular just before he ordained bishops and priests," he said.
Given the behaviour of some of those bishops and priests he might have done better to whip them!!!
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Reader Comments (17)
It's a good job the Pope is infallible, or else I would have to criticise him if this story is true.
So if i were to punch myself repeatedly in the face, does that get me a backstage pass through the Pearly ones?
Oh Dear.
I find this a bit disturbing. I find the idea of someone having this a kink easier to understand than it being something to do with faith and religon.
I am genuinely interested in what (non lapsed) RCs think of this.
I take it Tom is less than impressed. Does it suprise you though?
I think it is TOTALLY weird and sick headed!! Yuck.
Monica
(admittedly not a very good Catholic!)
So JP II was into a bit of S & M. Well fancy that !
While I don't agree with it, Corporal Mortification isn't a new thing in the Church. His Holiness did say "Suffering, more than anything else, makes present in the history of humanity the powers of the Redemption". It is a personal choice as to whether you practice it or not and should be left at that. I don't believe that anyone does it Da Vinci code style and so if they aren't causing serious harm to themselves then leave them to it.
I believe it is the Jesuits who practice self flagellation?
Was it them who said,
"give me a child until he is seven and i will give you the man" ?
Pope John Paul II came across as a great man who stood foursquare for what he believed in.
I don't agree with the beliefs, but I admire the man.
Danny Boy,
I agree - I have a lot of time for some of his clear moral positioning. This kind of story is a bit sad, and reminds us that we all have feet of clay.
Corporal punishment ( " mortification of the flesh " ) is indeed not new. See Matt Talbot
Some Catholics do this publicly in Easter processions in the Philippines.
It is one thing that the ( old school ) Catholics have in common with Shia Islam, --whipping themselves publicly!
Original sin, baby.
Children cover your ears: well at least we know he wasn't pussy whipped.
And I descend to yet a lower region of Hades for that one.
Aileen - That kind of medieval self-mortification is something we relaxed Catholics are not comfortable with (excuse the pun). There is an element in the Church that hold on to this type of behavior, and possibly J2P2 was among them - but also possibly such behavior would be attributed to him by those seeking to gain support for such behavior. But it is no longer in the mainstream of those who practice the faith.
It's like something from many centuries ago.
Just don't ask us to give up Bingo.
mahons
Do you remember WWOZ, the jazz station in New Orleans?
I am listening to it now, over the net.
Phantom - yes, it was a wonderful station.
Anyone with a good internet connection can find it ( and thousands of other stations worldwide ) easily with
Radiotime
Anyone in the US, anyway. Some of these things don't work internationally, due to copyright agreements
The mortification of the flesh is a legitimate spiritual exercise and very much part of Catholic tradition. I don't know if the reports are true or not but it would be fine if they were. It's like fasting. Good for the soul. The way JPII bravely handled his final illness was an inspiration to millions as was his forgiveness of the man who tried to kill him. That was a result of spiritual training.
The S&M connotations are more to do with the obsessions of the modern world than Catholicism.
Who gives a damn what the last Pope did whack himself? Or the one before, come to that.
If a man wants to whip himself and he is over the age of legal responsibility, well go ahead.
Christianity is not alone in the practice, the Musslemen do so too.