You Can Have Any Colour You Like.........
Henry Ford once said the above in a reference to the all-black nature of his car colour availability. In much the same way the Irish Government said to Justice Baron: 'You can have any conclusion you like just as long as it damns the Ulster security services'. That is precisely the context in which the report on 'collusion' endorsed (naturally) by the Irish administration should be seen. We all know both HM Armed Forces and the RUC in Northern Ireland will have had a few 'bad apples'. This reality will be replicated in just about every public body the world over. What it will not do, however, is allow its collective good name to be tarnished by a poxy government of a poxy state that defied international law by claiming territory it had no right to, thereby giving succour to the aims of the Provisional IRA in the process.
The Oireachtas Committee has said the (admittedly atrocious) loyalist terrorist acts perpetrated in the 1970s were acts of 'international terrorism'. Aside from the obvious rejoinder that the Republic provided effective safe territory from which IRA terrorists could operate, the Constitution at the time defined the whole island as part of the 'national territory'. My goodness, the Oirish are quick enough to leave behind the irredentist histrionics when it suits. Jim Walsh is quoted as saying: 'We owe it to the integrity of our State that we do not allow an infringement of our sovereignty to go unchallenged.' But Jim, it is perfectly acceptable to have allowed your Constitution to permit an infringement of UK sovereignty for a period of no less than 62 years? The hypocrisy just keeps on coming!!!
This report has to be viewed as a feeble attempt by a hostile neighbour to call into question the integrity of groups without which the entire island could have been engulfed by protracted civil war. Jeffrey Donaldson today called for the Irish Republic to turn to its own difficulties in this regard before pointing the finger at others. It is a sentiment the British people, who had to suffer far more than 18 deaths in this country, will echo.
Andrew McCann
in Northern Ireland
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Reader Comments (12)
Why, because you say so.. Show me one government quote stating that this was the brief of the comittee and ill accept it. Otherwise shut up!
All the report did was to conclude with exactly what YOU yourself said
>>We all know both HM Armed Forces and the RUC in Northern Ireland will have had a few 'bad apples'.<<
You acknowledge that there are bad apples, and the report finds that there WERE bad apples. Wheres the problem here.
>>The Oireachtas Committee has said the (admittedly atrocious) loyalist terrorist acts perpetrated in the 1970s were acts of 'international terrorism'.<<
Andrew, as you and others continuously point out, the ROI is a foreign state...FOREIGN!!!! get it. Therefore if members of the security forces of a foreign state perpetrate acts of terrorism in the ROI then its International Terrorism... government sanctioned or otherwise...do you understand that.
>>Constitution at the time defined the whole island as part of the 'national territory'.<<
Thats what the constitution might have said, but it wasnt international law!!
>>But Jim, it is perfectly acceptable to have allowed your Constitution to permit an infringement of UK sovereignty for a period of no less than 62 years? The hypocrisy just keeps on coming!!!<<
So your equating planting bombs on a street in Dublin with a constitutional claim...
>>This report has to be viewed as a feeble attempt by a hostile neighbour <<
So were a neighbour now, not a foreign state. Hostile my foot!
>>Jeffrey Donaldson today called for the Irish Republic to turn to its own difficulties in this regard before pointing the finger at others. It is a sentiment the British people, who had to suffer far more than 18 deaths in this country, will echo.<<
Your right, we should work out a quota as to the number of people who should die before the Irish government can have an investigation into it... what do you reckon, 1000, or sure go the whole hog, 3000, lets say 3000, so when 3000 irish citizens have been murdered, THEN the irish government has a right to investigate the circumstances behind them...perfectly reasonable
Despite all that you have posted above, you have yet to say whether you do or do not believe that members of the UK security forces colluded with loyalists terrorist on ROI soil.
Yes or no answer would be nice
And before you come back with that crap about me looking to my own security forces before asking you about yours. Id have NO problem with any investigation into the Gardai/Army or any other branch of the security forces in the ROI due to similar claims. I can easily condemn anyone, any fool at all who would collude with those that would murder and maim people, but your view seems to be that well if they were doing it to us, then they get what the deserve.
By the way, if you had ever even spoken to a member off the Gardai, as many of my friends are, you would know that absolute disgust that they hold any IRA member with. You forget that the IRA had no qualms with killing Irish security forces when ever it suited them as well...
You have outdone yourself in the nonsense stakes yet again.
Comparing the Republic's territorial claim to the rest of the country with collusion between the UK security forces and loyalist death-squads is bizarre.
Articles 2&3 hardly gave succour to the Provos. They didn't even recognise Bunreacht na hEireann as the legitimate constitution of Ireland.
Even more bizarre is your reference to the Republic as "a hostile neighbour"!!! Are you serious? As far as international relations go, there are few countries that have BETTER relations than the Republic and the UK!
McCann seems to be blissfully unaware of the fact that your average Garda considered the SDLP as apologists of terror for not supporting their local police force, the RUC. But he has probably never spoken to a Garda.
You can just imagine what they thought of Adams and company if that's the esteem they held John Hume's party in.
We must forgive Andrew, he comes from Yorkshirabad so isn't well up in European ways.
Because this report is not pointing the finger at a 'few bad apples'. It is attempting to undermine the good name of several bodies charged with the security of NI during the time a terrorist body, acting in part from without the UK, and given encouragement by an illegal constitutional claim, was operational.
'But he has probably never spoken to a Garda.'
I once asked a Garda officer if there was a gents on O'Connell St.
Would you believe it that they got rid of em :)
Andrew, I agree with you in the sense that the organization should NOT be tarred for the crimes of some of its members.
This isn't about a few bad apples though. This report is making claims that collusion was widespread, and known of at cabinet level. In fact its claiming that members of the british government were briefed at the time that elements of the RUC were aiding terrorists, but that the reserves and the UDR were heavily infiltrated by extremists.
If this was my police force, id be outraged and demand an inquiry. Given sufficient evidence I would support anyone in a similar call with regards to the Irish security forces.
The problem is, that the ordinary joe soap of the RUC or UDR, the honest guy on the beat, is getting tarred with the same brush, and I wouldnt like this anymore then you would, but the responsibility for this lies with the authorities who left it go unhindered.
Also, ive been thinking about your claim that the Irish government would want this report to come out with findings against the British, and to be honest, i find it amazing that you would think this. Think about this, purely from a political sense. The irish government is as embarrassed about this report as the british government should be. The stronger the report, the more calls that will be made from the public for the government to act on it and believe me, this is the last thing they want. The Irish government has excellent relations with the UK government and does not want to upset this by having to take a heavy hand with the UK government, also it opens the Irish government up to calls for similar inquiries from the other side of the border, and rightly so, if called for.
The Irish goverment went along with the cover up into the Dublin/Monaghan bombings as much as the UK government did. Neither wanted to look too deep into it for fear of what might be disclosed.
Andrew, You would need to be from Dublin to appreciate just how funny that sentence is.
The Gents toilets were closed by Garda order in the late 1990's. They had been a notorious gay 'cruising' spot and had been used towards the end as a pick-up point for young male prostitutes.
O'Connell Street is currently being redevloped and improved and it was proposed (by the designers) to re-instate a public convenience facility - this was vetoed - again by the Gardai.
So for anyone looking for a toilet on said thoroughfare....they can whistle for it !!!
D4, I didnt want to mention that .. it didnt expect Andrew knew the relevance :)
Its quiet possible :)
Im not sure what its like in the UK, but every town in Ireland is getting rid of their public toilets. Some have installed those machine ones, but they cost a fortune, something like 30K a year to maintain. So the tourists and the like have to hold it or use a pub or what ever.
From time spent up north it seems to be the opposite. Even a commons had a public toilets, as did the beaches. Proper order.
Perhaps!
Our Gardai would never go 'undercover' in one of these places like the proactive LAPD - so they simply had it shut down. Saved them the hassle - the thinking was that it would protect vulnerable young lads from filth.
It was a waste of time though imo, as is always the case, be it in Dublin, London or even Yorkshire i'd imagine, this kind of evil simply continues at a different location.
Superb!!